Justin, I agree that we agree on most points on this subject. But I think your point of view about the difference between teachers and administrators -- and teachers' politics, etc. -- is valid for an older generation. The newer additions to the profession over the last five or ten years are terribly prepared and not very motivated. They'll join the NEA and pay dues because that's the culture, not because of any strong beliefs -- they are apathetic and cynical and do not believe that anyone can make a difference -- which means they'll go with the crowd. Awful material to shape teachers from.

You said it yourself: education majors at colleges score lower on standard aptitude and content tests than most other professions. And over a standard range of courses, their grades are low. Comparatively few education majors make honors at graduation.

Of course, we get what we pay for -- as teachers are among the lowest paid professionals in the U.S. So we have to accept some of the blame, as well.

I have a confession to make here. Feel like withholding information is making me "dishonest". I hold a couple of doctorates, one in computer science, and the other in history, specialization U.S. and international relations. When I'm not running a company in Nevada, I'm teaching history part time at a university. All of my classes have a strong component of education majors -- usually about half. I've taught history (and some computer science) to education majors in Michigan, Maine, Virginia, and Nevada since 1984. I have personally witnessed what has happened over the last 20 years. I could dismiss the problem for a number of years, but no longer. It's truly frightening, the sort of people we're putting in front of our kids. It's not entirely a young teacher's fault. Sadly, he/she is now a victim of the same kind of education I'm railing against.

A synergistic, downward spiral.

 

I agree that teachers aren't doing their job in the most efficient manner. It's not their fault...it's the system's fault. Teachers are taught how and what to teach. Kids learn from the teachers. Kids grow up to be teachers and apply what they've learned from their teachers. That creates a downward spiral of education.

I just recently learned why WWI and II were fought while watching TV. I think I didn't learn these things in high school because of the way the subjects where presented. The History Channel did a great show (in my opinion) on Days That Shook the World. They explained things in plain English. Lots of times teachers try to pack a lot of information into a short amount of time because of curriculum requirements. I think it's great to learn all you can in school, but if you're so busy memorizing dates, names, and places, there's no time for comprehending what really happened.

I knew something was wrong when they stopped corporal punishment in schools. When I was in 12th grade (1994) the 8th graders were absolute hellians.

My fiancee is a teacher...a conservative teacher. She agrees that the system is screwed up and refuses to teach in a public school. She also refuses to allow any of our kids to attend a public school. In fact, she wants to homeschool them.

 

Tartarus - My daughter, now in fourth grade, did the same as your son did when she was in 3rd grade. Same deal!...EXCEPT...the rest of the students were far behind her and a few others in all other subjects. She was accepted in the gifted and talented. I asked her the other day what they were doing in the G&T class.....and I quote "we are reading about greek mythology"...I almost fell down. I thought that was long gone in school. I remember learning that in school, but she has learned way more than I remember.

I registered her in a scholarship program to try to earn college funding. It was mailed to us due to her excellent test scores....no less that 95% on any subject for all tests...PAC or whatever and the other 3 she had to take. I am proud. She reads to first graders on her own time, plays soccer, excellerated reader...something else that I cannot remember...(mommy keeps track, I'm backup)....I teach her geometry at home and she tried to learn my calc 3 when I would do homework .....anyway, sorry for bragging.

KEEP YOUR SON GOING....encourage, go to school and push the issue. He sounds to be a very bright young man. Try private school, Karate, and keep on testing...do not let it go....he is your future.....

It all starts with the parents. YOU have to teach your children to get them to the next level. READ to them when they are babies. They also must understand the importance of doing well....

thanks for letting me ramble - John

 

Tartarus-

You have exposed me! I confess-- I am an idealist still. I believe that there is just a way certain things should be. Kids need both parents. You shouldn't have a baby if you aren't married. Yada yada.

It's IS true what you say that a lot of younger teachers are now products of the failed system- which can only bring down the system farther.

The only solution that I see is for parents to step up and discipline and educate their own children. Then send those children as adults into the teaching profession-- not with degrees is "education" but in substantive disciplines.

The pay of teachers is a chicken-and-egg situation. Do teachers get paid less because of the poor academic achievement of students? Or do students achieve less because a teacher's salaray is insufficient to attract the top talent?

hmm...

Justin

 

HOHN - you nailed it....It is the Parents!!!

I think very few get involved in the childs activities and homework. School is top priority at our house...due to me learning the hard way.....We read every word on every page of her homework. If I don't think it is neat enough...she does it again. No sloppy writing. OH, you forgot your homework at school....clean your room, take a bath, eat, no tv, no games...you may read only.

Maybe I am too hard. It sure does work though. She does great and is happy and eager to learn. My boys see this and are learning the proper way to do things. You will be held accountable.

The parents have got to get involved and support their children. See how the school is going. If your child is bored and too smart for the class, find another school, class, activity. They will thank you for it.

John

 

You guys are FINALLY getting to the root of the problem. PARENT CULPABILITY. That is the problem period. Most parents do not take the blame for the way their child turned out. They want to blame society because "it takes a village to raise a child". To that I say BULL. It takes a parent willing to put forth an effort to see that the children have the propper MORAL upbringing. They need to realize that little "Johnny" or "Janey" did not have the right example to follow while growing up. I have so much I want to say about this that I can't it is rediculuos. If I did the locks would be out so quick...................
Tom

 

You guys are FINALLY getting to the root of the problem. PARENT CULPABILITY. That is the problem period. Most parents do not take the blame for the way their child turned out. They want to blame society because "it takes a village to raise a child". To that I say BULL. It takes a parent willing to put forth an effort to see that the children have the propper MORAL upbringing. They need to realize that little "Johnny" or "Janey" did not have the right example to follow while growing up. I have so much I want to say about this that I can't it is rediculuos. If I did the locks would be out so quick


I really agree with this I have a daughter that is a teacher. It is dictated what she can teach. But she does her best to add what she can to make it better for the kids to be taught what they need. She usually puts in 11 hours a day at school and then goes home and grades papers for about 2 hours each night. I know that they are some bad teachers but for the most part at her school they are very dedicated. The problem is that the bad ones, it is almost impossable to get rid of them.

 

one of my sons teachers did not believe that the same side of the moon always faces the earth. he is 31 now if i had it to do over we would have had a long talk.

 

My opinion is teach your own children. turn the TV off, be involved with your kids, talk to them ask questions what they are learning in school. Raise them the way you see fit in your eyes because when they get in there teens they know everything (at least they think they do) and that is where it is reflected in our society. In this day and times of our lives we are to busy with our own personnal things wanting to gain more stuff, so we as individuals if we are married both parents work so we can have more stuff. We have kids but not the time to deal with them. I know there are some kids that are born with a bad seed but it can be corrected when the child is young. There are alot of people that pawn there kids off at daycare and babysitters, not a bad thing but they teach what they want to teach. Our goverment bodies also say what our kids will learn and what they want learn, that is where we have to teach our kids. I live in the country, that is were I was raised so my kids are raised that way. Some people choose the city that is cool for them.
This small town I live in still believes in saying the Pledge of Alligence to the U.S. Flag, and still has a prayer at school. The teachers know that if you take God out of everything the Society we live in will fall by the wayside.