I did do the math. That's why I'm concerned for him. He said that he has 22 single breakers and 4 double poles. That makes 26 hot leads going out at a minimum of 15 amps each I get 390 amps

 

Diversification will shed most of his load.

Just because he has 390 amps of breaker does not mean any of them have to have any load on them.

By your math my 200 amp service should be pulling 400 amps thru the main (2x200) or about 750 thru the downstream breakers. At that rate my electric bill should be about $24,000 a month.

 

Im running basically the same box at my house.

I have the 3 dual pole and the balance singles.

What I would do is tap off the stove line with ATLEAST an 8 gauge wire depending on run and use it for the welder. Tell the wife not to bake a cake while your sparking a rod.

Your alternate is to have your meter pulled while you add another dual pole circuit. One of my cousins house is wired this way for their heat pump, but they are running an eight pole breaker for the house.

I dont have my NEC infront of me to see what they say about it.

 

Your concerns are valid, but he should have a 100 or 200 amp main that will blow first (in theory). Besides, like others have pointed out, he's not going to be running everything at once.

 

"I dont have my NEC infront of me to see what they say about it."







NEC 230-42
(a) General. The ampacity of the service -entrance conductors before the application of any adjustment or correction factors shall not be less than either (1) or (2). Loads shall be determined in accordance with Article 220. Ampacity shall be determined from section 310-15. The maximum allowable current of busways shall be that value for which the busway has been listed or labeled.
(1) The sum of noncontinuous loads plus 125 percent of continuous loads
(2) The sum of noncontinuous loads plus the continuous load if the service -entrance conductors terminate in an overcurrent device and it's assembly are listed for operation at 100 percent of their rating

 

I never said that he would have all circuits at load all the time. I just think that he should do some calculations. I wouldn't let my liability ride on it. Good luck either way. Sorry to be a killjoy.

 

so as long as his main is less than the ampacity of the conductors from the meter, and he doesn't bypass the main to supply the welder, he is fine.

Of course the proper method is to add a bigger panel, upgrade the meter, and service wires.

 

When did busways start to be installed in residential structures?

We are looking at a 30 space box with no more room. We need 32 spaces. Do we spend 50 bucks on a few special breakers or 1500 bucks to pull a perfectly good 30 space panel out only to replace it with a 40 or 42 space panel?

That is why I wanted to know if it was a homeline. He may already have the spaces and not know it.

I hope he has a QO. They were better quality.

 

For short duration intermittant load typical of a welder your box should be fine. Just install minibreakers on a couple of existing circuits to free up the room for the new breaker and weld away. If you are planning to do production work with a serious welder then you will have to run the numbers and possible upgrade your panel. If you do make the changes to your panel and start tripping breakers - any breakers then get a electricial you trust to look at your panel and find out why!!

 

MAde a setup for a guy at work the other day that ran off the dryer outlet. Even though the welder has a higher rating it shouldnt be seen unless you are welding some serious plate. All he has to do is unplug his dryer and plug in the extension cord for the welder. Dryers are typically on their own breaker. If you are only welding 4 times a year this should be any easy fix for ya.

 

i do not recommend double lugging (i.e. tapping two circuits off one breaker) your circuits like some have suggested. its not necessarily an immediate danger but it is wrong and a code violation. like some have suggested i would replace full size single throw breakers with double throw breakers, and free up some space for a dedicated 240v circuit. some Square D panels can be tricky however and may have provisions to stop you from doing this. keep in mind when you are consolodating circuits to maximize space that you keep circuits in proper phasing. some contractors/builders will run two circuits with one neutral wire. this is perfectly fine because the phase is 180* opposite, thus the neutral wire will only see one side of the phase at a time, however, if the two circuits are on the same phase the neutral wire will see double the load, causing a fire hazard. drawing enough power to throw your main breaker, be it 100 or 200 amps is very difficult. more likely to happen during a short circuit than normal household operation. 100 amps is a buttload of power. 200 amps is 2 buttloads of power!

my best advise i can give you: call a qualified recommended electrician. i've seen too much hokey dangerous stuff done by home owners, to handymen, to even licensed contractors.

unless you absolutely know what you are doing -which judging by the topic of this thread it is very possible that you dont - leave it to a professional. at least if they burn your house down you can claim their bond

either way, good luck.

 

Good post, A cheaper alternative to ripping out your 30 breaker box would be wiring in a seperate sub panel for all of your big load items.

 

+1 with Robert. That 30A circuit should be fine for welding pretty much anything short of real thick stuff. Just replace the 50A plug on the welder with a 30A and see how it goes. If it pops the breaker then you can investigate the higher cost solutions without having spent much money. And no, the house won't burn down....

Often times the easiest solution is the best solution.

 

It is a 200amp box. BUT, 15 of the breakers are already these new double types. So it really is full. That's how I got up to 30. I was counting each of the switches.

I have an Electrician coming back Tuesday. $115 to put an additional box in for me. This will only be a small one for growth, includes 1 220a and 2 of the double 115's

ElectriFried - It is the Homeline box.

Thanks for everything folks!

 

This is exactly what I did to wire an outlet for my 180 Hobart Mig. I replaced four of the regular sized breakers that were on a fairly light load and added two mini double pole breakers and one regular double pole breaker. I have a 200A panel and I have had no problems with it at all. I just dropped the 10/2 wires down the wall and mounted the outlet under the breaker box in the garage.