ok,
bill oreilly just did a story on bio diesel so my question is this, who is running bio diesel, who thinks this is a good idea and who sez "hell no!!" this is the past, is it also the future? anybody have good advice, good/bad stories?

give me the scoop,
david h ???

 

I run it on occasion. I even keep a 5 gal jug of it as an additive. It's a great product for cleaning the fuel system. It also aids in lubrication of the pump. The closest bio station is 30 miles away, so I don't get to use it as much as I like. I personally would like to see more stations carry it. I am willing to pay a little more for it as well.

I don't think I would ever get into making my own from waste vegatable oil. Sounds like an interesting hobby, but don't have the time. Kevin

 

I thought Bio diesel had less lubrication than low sulphur diesel.

Mike

 

Do a search under bio diesel and you will find plenty of info on here already.
Send me a PM and I will send you some other sites to get the facts straight also.

 

For a speech in speech class, I did it on diesels. In my research, I found biodiesel has a lubricity level of 12 ppm. Petroleum diesel (not low sulphur) has a lubricity level of 500 ppm. Here is the paper.

Mike

Speech 102
Informative Speech

Basic Operation.
Gas and diesel engines are the same in the aspect that they are both internal combustion engines. Meaning that there is a controlled explosion inside the engine that creates energy. This energy is used to push the piston down, which turns the crank, is routed through the transmission and turns your wheels. In that aspect they are the same.
Where they differ is internally. A gasoline engine intakes a mixture of gas and air, compresses it and ignites the mixture with a spark. They have a ratio of 8:1 to 12:1. Diesels don’t have spark plugs, so the heat that is needed for combustion is the result of the compression of the air in a ratio of 14:1 up to 25:1. When the air is fully compressed, when the piston is completely at the top of it’s travel, diesel is injected into the cylinder at 20,000 to 30,000 psi depending on the system. Because they have the higher compression ratios, they need to be stronger. One of the benefits to this is that diesel engines are built to a heavier duty standard than gas engines., and have a longer service life, but they are heavier. Diesel has a greater energy potential of 147,000 BTU compared to gas at 125,000 BTU, and along with the higher compression ratio the air/fuel mixture is burned at, better efficiency is the result.
Advanced direct-injection diesel engines are up to 45% more efficient than current gasoline engines, and about 20% more efficient than advanced gasoline engines.
20,000 psi is a lot of pressure, and a fuel lubricant is needed to protect the injection pump’s tight tolerances. The natural lubricant in diesel fuel is sulfur. In an article of Business Week Magazine for the week of Sept 18, 2000, it stated that in 1985, diesel fuel contained 3,000 PPM of sulfur. The EPA demanded a reduction of 83%, to 500 PPM. To make it even lower, the agency said it may limit a maximum level of 15 parts per million (PPM). To some people who own diesels, that is a big deal. I use an added lubricant now anyways, so I don’t know if it will be a detriment to the engine. It all depends on if the injection system is designed for low-sulfur fuel. But prices could rise as much as 52 cents more per gallon for new, low-sulfur fuel.
The main reason you see the black smoke is because of the amount of fuel delivered in the duration of the injection time. It is the hydrocarbon particulate that is the result of incomplete combustion. According to Mechanical Engineering in Aug 98, “A considerable reduction in particulate is found when a longer pause is used between the injections. Even larger particulate reductions have been achieved by injecting the fuel in three or even four pulses with appropriate pauses between each pulse.”
Particulate matter (soot) and Nitrogen Oxide levels vary with the amount of gas turbulence, wall heat transfer, spray atomization and evaporation, fuel auto ignition point.
   One of the concerns from diesel exhaust in the environment is Nitrogen Oxide. According to the January 2002 Consumers' Research Magazine, Nitrogen Oxide emission rates from modern diesel engines are about 5 to 10 times greater than from comparable gasoline engines, and particulate emissions are 10 to 300 times greater. A way to cut down the Nitrogen Oxide levels is to use an EGR or Exhaust Gas Recirculator. The Aug 1998 issue of Hydrocarbon Processing states that EGR reduces Nitrogen Oxide as a result of the high temperatures in the combustion chamber of the diesel engine's cylinder. Recirculating the exhaust gas fumes to the engine’s air intake system lowers the temperature, because the exhaust gas fumes absorb much of the heat being produced. The bad side of this is that It lowers fuel economy. Which brings us to our next bundle of information: Fuel economy.

Fuel Economy
   Because of the higher compression ratio, higher energy content in the fuel, better atomization of fuel because of the high fuel pressures, you get more mileage for your fuel dollar.
In December 2001, Trucktrend Magazine did an article to determine if diesel engines were a good engine for SUV’s. These are the numbers they came up with:

Ford Excursion       6.8l gas-   9.7 mpg
        &n bsp;7.3l Diesel-17.7 mpg

   Figuring diesel is .30-.40 cents/gal cheaper than gas
36 gal x 1.75/gal = $63.00   36 gal x 9.7 mpg = 350 miles
   
36 gal x 1.40/gal = $50.00   36 gal x 17.7 mpg = 637 miles

   BMW X5    Gas 3.0l   13.5 mpg
      Gas 4.0l   12.5 mpg
    Diesel   19.1 mpg

   According to an article written in Popular Mechanics Magazine in Aug 2001, Dr. S.M. Shahed, Garrett's vice president of advanced technology (They make turbo chargers) says if all other factors are equal, turbo diesel-powered cars get 50 percent better fuel economy than equivalent gas-engine cars. He graphed the fuel economy figures for some 200 European cars, which showed that the average improvement in fuel economy for turbo charged models versus non-turbo is 10 percent. The usable torque of a 2.0-liter turbo charged engine is better than that of a 3.0-liter non-turbo engine.
Shahed also said that internal combustion engines need 9000 gallons of air for every gallon of fuel in order to run efficiently. Naturally aspirated engines must draw this air in on their own. (That is done when the piston travels to the bottom of it’s travel). So adding a turbo speeds up the process and, literally, takes a load off the engine, which saves fuel. When the piston goes to the bottom of it’s travel, it pulls air in. It creates a type of vacuum and causes drag on the piston. This process uses energy that could be spent on applying more power to the downward travel of the piston. A turbo charges the air so the drag isn’t there. A turbo charger is similar to a compressor in that it pressurizes the intake air so the oxygen content is more condensed. How a turbo works is the exhaust flow spins a turbine wheel that's connected by a shaft to a compressor wheel. The compressor wheel takes in outside air and rams it into the engine at high pressure. This makes the air charge very hot, so it's routed through an air-to-air cooler (commonly called an intercooler) that drops the temperature, which makes the air charge even denser. The engine's intake-air sensor then measures this compressed air and the power-train computer adds extra fuel to match. When this compressed and cooled air finally reaches the cylinders and diesel is injected, you get more energy, so you get more power from a smaller-displacement engine. A wastegate releases pressure that exceeds a predetermined limit in the engine so it doesn’t blow up.

Different types of fuels.
   So what kinds of fuel are used in diesels? There are different types of fuels that can be used to supplement diesel. There is propane, where it is injected before the intercooler and compressed through the turbo to mix with the air. There is also Nitrous oxide. (laughing gas) These fuels act as a catalyst with the diesel to produce more energy. In this case, more heat as well. Propane also cleans out the carbon deposits very well because of the heat it produces. However, they cannot be used in high concentrations. Most systems are set up for high horsepower applications such as tractor-pulls and racing. When propane is used in a continuous low-flow situation, greater fuel mileage is achieved than with just regular diesel.
   I saw a web site last year where 2 guys modified a 70’s VW diesel to use deep fryer fat. They traveled from coast to coast stopping at restaurants to fuel up. They would just ask if they could have their old fryer grease. Of course they had to strain it to get all the little giblets and french fries out, but they did it. Could you stand the smell of French fries for 6000 miles?
   Then there is Biodiesel. Biodiesel can be used as a 100% substitute for diesel fuel. In the 1890’s when Rudolf Diesel invented the compression ignition engine, he used whale fat. That ended up being too expensive, so he had to come up with an alternative fuel. Then he acquired some peanuts from a farmer and used an olive press to extract the oil from the peanuts. Peanut oil was the first form of affordable fuel for diesel engines. It wasn’t until the early 1900’s when petroleum was found in Virginia, that a petroleum product was used in a diesel engine.
Now there is Biodiesel. Biodiesel is considered readily biodegradable and non-toxic. In an article named ‘SOYBEAN-POWERED EQUIPMENT MAY HELP CLEAN UP DIESEL EMISSIONS. Aug 01. ENR: Engineering News-Record, Grant H. Goodman and his Chelsea, Mass.-base biodiesel supplier, World Energy Alternatives Inc., claim the fuel reduces known diesel carcinogens by 100%, smog-producing hydrocarbons by 95% and particulates by 50 to 60%. Soot emitted is vegetable oil-based and not identified as a carcinogenic, adds Goodman, who says there is no difference in torque, efficiency or power. Biodiesel also helps support the U.S. farming industry and minimizes our dependence on foreign oil. Continued testing indicates that biodiesel degrades as fast as and is as safe as sugar in the environment, and when blended with diesel, accelerates the diesel’s degradation in the environment. The exhaust smells better and in fact it smells like frying French fries as well. Just not as strong.
Like I said before, diesel engines normally have a higher nitrogen oxide level compared to engines fueled with other products and, for reasons that are not entirely understood. In certain engines use of biodiesel tends to slightly increase those emissions of oxides of nitrogen. Since Nitrous Oxide is an ozone precursor, there was some concern about this issue. This was the case with older non computer-controlled engines, and 1998 or newer engines do not have an increase in Nitrogen Oxide levels.

Advantages

Pure biodiesel has low water toxicity and is completely biodegradable in about 30 days. This characteristic substantially reduces the impact of accidental spills and makes it ideal for use in environmentally sensitive areas, including inland waterways for marine applications. Many tests have concluded that the best overall results are obtained with a blend of 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent conventional diesel. Although biodiesel is cleaner burning, some anticipate that this advantage will diminish as progress is made in reducing emissions and increasing the efficiency of combustion from petroleum based diesel fuel. It has a value of about 133,000 BTU: Halfway between diesel and gas. Another benefit of biodiesel production is that it creates more employment, as it is three to six times more labor intensive per unit of production than fossil fuels. In Apr 02, American City & County, Keith Ciampa, a member of the National Biodiesel Board, said, “There are 3 billion gallons of excess vegetable oil on the market that can be utilized to make biodiesel.”
The downside is cost. Pure biodiesel costs about 20 cents more per gallon than petroleum diesel and the 80-20 blend costs four cents more per gallon than pure petroleum diesel, but the cost is offset by environmental benefits. A National Biodiesel Board study shows the 80-20 blend reduces unburned hydrocarbons by 30 percent, carbon monoxide by 20 percent and particulate matter by 22 percent. That is pretty good considering diesel exhaust already has less carbon monoxide than gas exhaust.
There are a few disadvantages, though.
The major disadvantage of biodiesel is high production costs. Studies conducted when agricultural commodity prices were much lower than at present and petroleum prices were in the range of US$18 to $20 per barrel concluded that petroleum must rise to over US$40-$50 per barrel to make biodiesel production viable without a subsidy.
Biodiesel has a higher viscosity than conventional diesel and therefore becomes less useful at lower temperatures. This limits its use in Canada, the northern U.S. and much of Europe. In these areas, biodiesel is marketed as an additive in a 5-10 percent blend with conventional diesel fuel.
Another concern is the lubricity of the fuel. 100% Biodiesel has a lubricity of 12ppm Sulfur, whereas the petroleum fuel has level has 500ppm. This has caused some concern to diesel owners because they feel they need to use an additive in biodiesel. Like I said before, I don’t see it as a bad point because almost everyone I know who has a diesel truck uses an additive now.

So we have covered the differences between gas and diesel engines- we know how they work, why they are stronger and more powerful.
We know that they get better mileage than a similarly equipped gas vehicle, that a turbo-charged engine makes more power than a bigger displacement non-turbo engine and we know how and why a turbo works.
Finally we covered the different types of fuels that can be used in conjunction with diesel to make more power and a fuel that can replace diesel altogether.

So now what will you think when that puff of black smoke comes out of a bus? Are you still going to think what a polluter, or are you going to think that maybe that bus is using the oil that cooked my French fries last week? Or I wonder if that diesel has a turbo? Whatever crosses your mind now, I hope that you have learned something from this information, and one day you will be able to educate someone on the benefits of diesel ownership.

 

well, that answered some questions.
interesting paper.

semper fi,
dave h

 

Good Day!
You write, "The natural lubricant in diesel fuel is sulfur . . . " I don't see you connection. The element Sulfur (S) is not, in itself, a lubricant. It is a non-metal and, in its pure form, a moderate abbrasive.
You paper is interesting and informative, but I think you make a weak connection between the element sulfur and lubrication. What say you?

 

Keep in mind that this speech was for people that have no idea about diesel engines. I did not go into great detail about nitrous emissions caused by the sulphur content in fuel or other characteristics of the lubricity of sulphur when combined with organic or inorganic compounds. Only about the relation in lubricity using sulphur as the main measure between biodiesel and petroleum diesel. I know sulphur on it's own cannot be a lubricant.

Does the speech make sense now that you know it was written for people who do not know about diesels?

Mike

 

jusy dont confuse Nitrous oxide and nitrogen oxide emmitions

N2O and NO2/NO3/NOx are completely different animals

 

You are correct. Nitrogen Oxide emissions is a different animal.
This is what is greater in diesel than gas engines.

Mike