59FORD

YES these are full floated pistons.


Remove the circlip and pin to see if the wrist pin hole is galled, also look at the
pin and rod. Galling can be from heat as well as from lack of lubrication.
The pin should be free in the rod and piston but not loose.
If NOT it's time to find out why.
I would also check the piston skirt for galling and while your there check the block for the same.
These blocks are very tough and wear very little.


Hope you find something at least.

TORQUE

Sometimes if you are looking too hard for something you may miss problem, you may have to closely inspect everything again. Is there any scrubbing on thrust side of piston or block which would indicate excess movement? Have you removed wrist pin to closely inspect fit/damage? Do all pistons match? Does head show signs of carbon on #3? Did you plastigage rod on crank? Are all rod bearings stock size ,or has it been cut down 10thousanths, or just one. You,ve already ruled out injector problem, a slim chance that it could be inj. pump electrical problem on #3 that affects timing of injection only on #3 to give it compression knock(after everything else in engine has been ruled out). These are some things to check.

It is hard to diagnose problem when you can't see pictures, or visually inspect in person. With troubles you have had, If I was closer to you Haulin, I would inspect and repair for you. You may have to get certified diesel mechanic to inspect(Cummins has service trucks). Sounds like it should be a wrist pin/rod issue.

Leaving for elk hunting tomorrow A.M. for a week, hope you find problem. Good luck

Haulin_in_Dixie

To a degree the thread got a little off course. The question was Can the VP44 do this??? Or do I pull the engine for bearings??

The knock did not fit any of the normal symptoms to diagnoses. Actually I have gone to the worst case. Pulled bearings and a couple of pistons for nothing. There is no piston damage, pin damage, or bearing damage. Actually, impressive, like new.

I don't have any problem identifying bearing damage and measuring the necessary items, but this knock is elusive. I now have to have the pump tested. There just is not much left to check and it may very well be just a bad VP44.

P.J

Thats going to just be Crazy and unfortunate if it is the IP. VP44 issues have caused many a headache, but this would be king of all. You've had quite a run here, good luck must be around the bend??

Haulin_in_Dixie

I keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

Actually I was stupid I think, but going on Cummins advise. The engine was built 8/97 and we all know that the early pumps were the worst.

I have come up with a couple of interesting differences than the production engines. The injectors should pop at 320 or so these pop perfectly at 280 and all accurately.

This engine was built as a test engine by Cummins as either a first production run, or before production. All the head bolts are surface ground on both ends for accurate measurement. It looks to me like it has been balanced, a lot of grinding on parts the the other engines did not have.

I get my parts Monday, did not have 2080 ring sets in the Birmingham area, had to come from Memphis. Also putting a new oil pan on it. They shocked me, the pan is only $76.00.

I purchased the cummins repair manual for the engine for more info than the Dodge manual. It has some changes, including the new torque specs for the mains and rods, also using sealer on both sides of the pan gasket all the way down.

pind

How tight is the piston wrist pin in #3. too tight is not good at all, it should be able to rotate quite freely in both the rod and piston.

Other than that, if it is the vp44, that sucks, on the other hand, you will have a strong engine for a long time after this.

Were you able to get a test unit to do the cylinder cutout test, to see what the pump was performing at?

I can probably come up with another 50 or so dumb questions and suggestions, but for now, that will do.

Good luck with the rebuild. if you are stuck for whatever reason PM me.

Haulin_in_Dixie

When I said snug, I meant properly so. The fit is perfect and the bushing shows no wear but still has tool marks in it. The piston skirts have no wear at all, look as new.

I did not have the cutout test or I might have saved a bunch of work. The knock went totally away with loosening the injector nut. I will try to have the vp flow tested on Monday. That should give the answers before assembly.

Haulin_in_Dixie

I got my parts in today to put the engine back together. Still have not found anything to would cause a knock. I attempted to have the vp flow tested and found that to do that I have to ship it to where ever, no facilities locally, no way to check it. I have this lump in my throat, but have to get it going again. I am not used to not finding a problem.

Went searching the net again and came up with this, from our own board, missed it before. Maybe is the answer.

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 613

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Injector knock is generally due to dirty or burned injectors and will be a slight knocking and roughness at idle on a fully warmed engine, and a bit of vibration at higher engine speeds. I would try a good injector cleaner before removing the injectors.

Unfortunately, the VP44 will also give the same symptoms when it is about to seek the happy hunting grounds.

As a rule of thumb, if the injection pump is going, you will need to have your injectors cleaned and rebuilt at the same time. What happens is the stator and vane of the pump disintegrates and then lodges particles in the injection lines, injectors, and overflow ports. It is important that all the line cleaning and injectors are done when the pump is swapped, so that crud does not end up back in the system with a new pump.

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Marine

Do you have access to another pump while yours is getting tested? That might be the best way.

Haulin_in_Dixie

Yeah Mike, I am putting another pump on it. Have a couple of days work to get it all back running. I guess, simple, it either knocks or it don't.

rebal

I had a noise like that on a 6.5td that would go away with # 1 injector opened truck ran for quite a while ended up the the crank broke at 1 main.
hope thats not your problem

JD730

I'd be interested in what the cause of you knock is. I have a knock in my 24v, very evident when I'm on the fuel, feels and sounds like a partial miss, nothing when I'm coasting.
Oil anaylisis came up with nothing, going to pull another one in a week or so.

Borrowed a scan tool, did a cylinder cutout test, its nice not to have fuel all over the place. Did the cutout test on all 6 cylinders and nothing, right after we exited that menu the motor starts knocking like it would normally in its current condition.
So here I am waiting for it get worse or the VP to die.

Haulin_in_Dixie

Probably late tomorrow I will post the results. Never found anything in the bottom of the engine. Have replaced the injectors, head, vp44, so we will soon see. If it still knocks I may take a trip and park it at the beach in Galviston.

I am getting old and slow. A days work on it outside is two or three days work for me. The heat gets to me fast.

Trouble is that on yours if the cutout test did not narrow it down, it may be something different. Mine was definately tied to cylinder three. No fuel no knock.

mhuppertz

I am getting old and slow. A days work on it outside is two or three days work for me. The heat gets to me fast.

Old and slow have nothing to do with it. That's a major meat grinder you are in, for anyone of any age!

JD730

Your right, you are much farther than I am with troubleshooting, you found which cylinder it was or at least which one was making the noise. I haven't eliminated as much stuff as you have, but at least my oil samples have come back good, so I'm not shedding the bearings into the pan.

I'll have to get the scan tool and try the cylinder cut out again, because when we did it the motor idled up to around 1200 rpm's and I did not hear the knock at that time. Then we did the cylinder cut out. Didn't notice anything at that time. Doesn't hurt to do it again.