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Water Injection?

Old 10-25-2002, 03:40 AM
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Re:Water Injection?

Don, If you are interested, a representative with Aquamist will be at the rally on Saturday. He's supposed to have 10 systems there and offering a rally discount.<br><br>I'm definately interested in this. It'll be good to see it with my own eyes.
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Old 10-26-2002, 12:29 AM
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Re:Water Injection?

gitchesum, I've not seen the Aquamist, personally, and am interested in what you find out at the rally. Please give a report.
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Old 10-26-2002, 06:42 AM
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Re:Water Injection?

To answer some Q's:<br><br>I am working on a simulation system that is derived from the FEM parts of Catia. (Some nice guy gives me some comp time on the sys)<br><br>The Aquamist system is quite nice if you use a pump that gives enough pressure to feed these hungry monsters. (Main point of my critics. They seem to have sorted this prob. out at your side of the pond.)<br><br>My systems usually work like that: Each cylinder has its own injector. I uses the electronics from some older fuel injected cars. (Won't disclose them now)<br>Some of the parameters for regulating: Boost or APPS (to determine load), EGT, exhaust backpressure, coolant temp. <br><br>In my opinion the system with an injector for each cylinder has the advantage that you don't disturb the mass harmonics of the gas entering the cylinder as massively as with a system that changes the specific mass and viscosity of the gas on the whole intake system. <br>One effect of the water inj. system is that you have much more exh. volume at a lower temp. The problem in that can be that the flow resistance of everything after the exh valve can become too high, so you loose scavenging. (Increased piston temp.) Also if exh. backpressure rises too high you can start floating valves, overrev turbos etc. <br>I had a VW Jetta 70HP turbodiesel that used water inj. Results were nice as long as you avoided getting outside the map. Several problems including the rest of the drivetrain being incapable to handle the torque resulted. <br>One of the problems that were a PIA was that the internal corrosion of the engine was increased. Due to the high pressures there was some blowby. This blowby containing water was very bad. Also acidic reidues in the exhaust gas were hard to handle. <br>Will report on results when getting on with the project. One of my problems is that I lost the opportunity to dyno..... <br><br>Best wishes<br>AlpineRAM
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Old 10-26-2002, 10:07 AM
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Re:Water Injection?

you dont want water in the injector pump because it will corrode the pump and seals thats why the fuel filter seperates it. also if it is pumped into the cylinder as a liquid your in trouble water in a liquid state can not be compressed and a hydrolock at a high rpm will destroy your engine.
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Old 10-26-2002, 10:41 AM
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Re:Water Injection?

Muskrat: You are right about the injection pump, and right about hydrolock.

But hydrolock will only occur if you use much too much water.
On the Cummins engine there is a volume of roughly 56 cc at TDC.
In an average application you use about 1% of the volume at TDC as a measure for the maximum amount of water to inject. So if the system is set up properly, you'll never have a hydrolock. Some systems will let water drip in after engine shutdown. Then the possibility of hydroshocking your engine is existant.
With water injection at this level you'll need about 5 liters (or 1,25 gallons) per minute. This is some example for diesels running on really heavy drugs. Lots of fuel and some nitrous.
Hydrolock will occur if the water is not distributed fine enough. Or if it's added pre-intercooler and allowed to sit down some time and then sucked in. Says &quot;gulp- - crash &quot;
I do not like systems where the water is injected pre-turbo. Even a very small droplet hitting the blades of a turbo at operating speeds will have its impact. It's true that you get an extremely fine mist with that method, but you decrease compressor life significantly. Also the possibility of the fine mist settling on the walls of the intercooler or some other tubing seems bad to me.

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Old 10-28-2002, 11:18 PM
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Re:Water Injection?

Alpine,

Wow, Catia is top notch stuff. The time involved in the training alone is incredible. Dassault writes some good stuff. I use their Solidworks and plugins called Camworks and Gearworks, but Catia is out of this world and my price range.
Currently I am running the 3rd release of KIVA when I can at the university. We also had it going at INEL before I left there.
I cant say I have seen a better CFD code. Wish I had a CRAY or similar system here in the office to run that code on in my spare time.

On my PC at home I use Fluent for CFD and Gambit for mesh.

I have inquired about licensing some of the other codes that are close to Catia and the price was what a really nice home cost here for a 1 year access. Out of my league for sure.

Don~

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Old 10-29-2002, 07:22 AM
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Re:Water Injection?

Hi Don!

Y'know, CATIA is out of my price range too- but there is somebody at a company who lets me work on their sys- I do network maint. for them.
Solidworks is sthg really good for construction. Very nice import of the 3D model int Catia for FEM analysis. I am not good at Catia itself. I do deliver the ideas and some of the math. background and this guy works his magic.

Sometimes we do work on some of his proj. together. Would like to have a CRAY too..... Just had a 16CPU RISC server here for testing. Addictive stuff for geeks.

Will try to get on with the water inj sys for the cummins. Could be a nice addition.

AlpineRAM
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