Has anyone ever swapped leafs for the front end of their Cummins? I am considering swapping leafsa under the front of my 99 cummins along with a older dana 60. I am tired of the unti bearings, as well as the CAD, and all that other crap under the front of the dodge. The trac bar is always going out, the ball joints getting torn apart, the bushings getting chewed up on the arms, the CAD... I want old reliable. Has anyone ever swapped leafs under the front end?

Dima

 

You will be hard pressed to find a good reason why anyone would swap out a 4 link/coil front end for leaf springs.......by far, the swap of choice is to maintain the 4 link front end and swap in a Ford D60. You get the full floating front end with tapered roller bearings with dual piston calipers and locking hubs, a high pinion front diff, 35 spline inner shafts and if you go to an earlier model, you can have the king pin front end that does not use ball joints. There are many easy aftermarket fixes for the track bar so that really shouldn't be an issue.

 

CTD Nut, isn't the Ford front end narrower than the stock Ddoge front end? I can get a newer Ford Metric 60 front end for a good price. What do you recommend? Should I just swap this over into mine?

Dimitri

 

I know one guy who put leafs under the front of his truck, and then sold it immediately afterwards. Coincidence? I think not.

You can make that 4 link system work 10 times better than any leaf spring setup, you just can't use stock parts. I wouldn't give up on the 4 link w/ panhard bar setup just yet. For as much as it would cost to buy an axle, buy your metal and tabs for brackets, get some leaf springs with the proper weight rating and spring rate, buy new wheels for the Ford axle (you said you could get the metric one, which I assume is the 8x170mm lug pattern), and everything else that goes along with it such as driveshaft, brake lines, ABS (good luck with that one!) and having to redo your steering, you can simply buy the Dynatrac manual hub conversion for $1600 (group buy going on, PM me for info), get a better track bar and steering setup, and be done. And you only need to do the steering, etc as the parts wear out. You can have a bulletproof front end that rides and performs as good as a 4 link will, with none of the hassles. Why take a step BACKWARDS when you can make the current technology work for you? Don't give up so easily.

EDIT: and yes, the Ford front axle is 69.25 WMS to WMS, while our AAM 925 front axle is 71" WMS to WMS. Not only would you need new front wheels with a different bolt pattern, but they would also need to have a combined 1 3/4" inch offset to keep the front as wide as it is now.
Or, you could just run rear steering.

 

I'll add my input, coming from someone who likes simplicity and strength over a smooth ride. If I wanted a cushy ride, I wouldn't have bought my truck in the first place!

I would eventually like to swap to leafs in the front of mine. I've about had it with this front end. I can't drive at more than 60 mph without worrying about death wobble, even after replacing a bunch of frond end components. The track bar has been replaced twice in 14,000 miles, and the new one is already loose. My particular truck is going to need new control arm bushings and other work, on top of what I've already done. The existing setup was designed for a 3000 lb. Jeep Cherokee, not a 6000+ lb. diesel.

I have driven a few Superduty Fords, and I like the way they ride and handle. I sure wouldn't complain about that front end! I would most likely do a custom setup using an older Ford Dana 60. I found a pair of F-350 axles for $350, and would have bought them if they had 3.54 gears and not 4.10s. They are the older style axles, with kingpins and manual hubs.

Doing a quality leaf spring conversion isn't a huge undertaking. The big thing to keep in mind is getting the caster correct when positioning the spring pads on the axle. I might even be able to keep the pads in the original location and position the axle just by spring position, but I would have to get lucky to be able to do that.

Swapping to leafs isn't for everyone, and I wouldn't suggest it to someone. I have a lot of drivetrain experience and can handle all of the measurements required to make the truck handle correctly. I wouldn't trust someone else to do this to my truck. If I had more money, I might even throw it at the truck and save time, but by the time i do a track bar conversion (roughly $400), hub conversion ($1600), install new control arm bushings, and other parts, I would be able to buy another alxe, new springs, new steering parts, new brakes, and rebuild the axle, and have enough left over to buy a locker for my rear axle! I just want to know my front end is bulletproof to be able to handle our rough local roads.

Jim

 

There is a guy over on pavementsucks that swapped his front in out for leafs, his name is electricCTD, a good fella, he goes to school up here with me, but hes from VA, and hasnt brought his truck up here yet. I dont know if he used the stock axle or what, but it looks decent from the pics.

 

NHDiesel, I totally understand what you are saying and where you are coming from... but two things.

#1) You will either have to figure out a way to implement an ABS hub on the Ford axle, or bypass your ABS system, and

#2) The front axle is still going to be almost 2 inches more narrow, no matter what year Ford Dana 60 you get. They are all 69.25 inches WMS to WMS. The Dodge/AAM 60/925 is 71 inches WMS to WMS. You will either need wheel spacers (weak!) or different offset wheels up front, which is bad because then you can't rotate tires without swapping wheels too.

 

Thanks for the info, but in response:

1. I really don't care, because a. I hate abs; and b. Mine doesn't work anyway.

2. I have 2 easy options- keep my stock wheels if they clear the frame and leaf springs, which they should, because Fords use the same offset wheel, as far as I know. The limiting factor with our suspensions are the control arms, so once they are gone, there should be enough room. Or else buy a new full set of wheels, with 1" less backspacing. I'm not concerned over the slight difference in axle width, because it looks like our trucks have wider rear axles than front anyway (many do) so this would just match them up.

Jim

 

I put a ford 60 in the front of mine, but I kept the coil setup. I didn't notice much difference in turning radius with the shorter axle, you cant tell anyways looking at it.

and show me where kingpin axles are stronger than balljoint axles.

 

I'm not so worried about the ball joints as I am the unit bearings. I know they uswually last quite a while, but are MUCH more costly to replace, and they usually need replacing when a full floater front would only need repacking. I guess those are my top priorities: better bearing design (serviceable, not disposable), and stronger/simpler suspension design. I think those are the 2 top things most people who are interested in an axle swap want.

Jim

 

That is an easy one to answer......I have seen ball joint D60's fail frequently.....either the balljoints literally get pulled apart or shear.....I have yet to see the king pins fail. I have seen the entire knuckle fail and the king pins are still intact..... there are some awesome heavy duty aftermarket knuckles that eliminate any chance of a knuckle failure for the king pin axles.

Do think it is any coincidence that the aftermarket only makes HD knuckles for the king pin D60? It is because those who are after bomb proof front axles don't waste their time with balljoints......they simply do not hold the same amount of force and load that the king pins do.

 

I don't think the 2nd gen D60 is quite 71" wide like the AAM 3rd gen axle but I'm not certain now......if you stick with a 97 and down Ford D60, it will have the same bolt pattern as the Dodge.

 

I'm pretty sure the WMS is the same on 2nd and 3rd gen front axles. I am trying to find verification but I am 99% sure that the 2nd gen Dana 60 has a 71 inch WMS.

 

Ok....I would like to know for future reference if they are the same or not...

 

Off topic but I'll take those. Seriously, I need them for a crawler project I'm working on.