New B Question, Which CTD, coming over from F**d
 

Hey Guys, I have a 2002 "ahem" Ford Powerstroke. It is stock. I don't want it to remain that way but after doing all of my research on getting 4-5 hundred rwhp I am kind of leary, you have things like powdered metal rods and weak trannies with the Fords. I am considering trading for a Dodge

My question to you is which CTD do I want? I would like to be in the 4-5 hundred rwhp range as previously stated (I am sure I will want more when I get there), prefer a manual but if used may be harder to find so which autos are weak? Which manuals are better?

I am not stuck on a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation as I like them all. Give me your recommendations please and why so I can make as an informed purchase as possible.

if i was you, i would get a 01.5 or a 02 dodge. 3/4 ton and what ever cab you want. i dunno much about the 12v's, but somebody will chime in here and tell you the goodies on them. are you wanting to pull the sled or drag the 1/4 mile or towing or what? the 6 speed is the strongest one stock. but if you want to drag or something, i would defiently go with a built auto. easier to build boost and all that. im over 400 with my set up. all i got is injectors and a chip. :D

Actually, this will be a daily driver. I don't mind, matter of fact like, the manual so it is nice to hear they are strong.

Anyone else?

The 12 valve engines are mechanically injected, (no electronics, more reliable). Relatively easy and cheaper to bump up the HP (to a certain point) than the 24 valved ones.
The 24 valve engines are electronically fuel injected and you have to pay attention to fuel pressure. Check out VP-44 failures using the search button. The lift pump starts to go bad, causing the injection pump (VP-44) to go bad because it is starved for fuel needed for cooling/lubrication. There are many fixes out there for the poor fuel system design from Dodge (FASS, RASP, Scotty's Smart Fuel system etc)
The 6 speed is available (from DCX stock) only on the 24 valve engines. It is the NV-5600, and is a strong manual. The 5 speed (in the second gens.) is the NV-4500. I believe the 5 speed in the first gens is a Getrag. Don't know much about the auto's except that if you are going to put 400 HP into your engine, you are going to have to upgrade it (DTT, ATS, Suncoast, Goerend)
If you get an eary 24 Valve, check to make sure it is not a "53" block. The block can crack. If I were going to put HP into my engine, I would make sure I did not start out with a 53 block. There are ways of fixing the a cracked 53 block (sticthing). Look for members Stamey's website, it has a good discussion of the 53 block.
Also, do a search for KDP (killer dowel pin) here to find out how to fix that issue (it is relatively easy).

None of these little issues should dissuade you from looking at an used Cummins that has been properly maintained. Check out the classifieds here, there are a lot of nice trucks maintained by folks who know more than the average person about diesel engines.

Good Luck,
~Rob

How much can the 12v be bumped up to?

KDP seems to be harmless as long as you take care of it. On the other hand the "53" block issue seems to be quite a problem. Is this something that it is just a matter of time before the block cracks or is there a certain power level (combustion pressure) that causes the crack?

Thanks for any info.

Just so you know the 1st gens are also exposed to the KDP but hardly ever have a problem. It's the 2nd gen 12 valves through 94-98 that do. As stated it can be easily fixed just follow the instructions you find in our archives.

I will say... all the trucks have their ups and downs. I see a 1st gen as bomb proof but they are somewhat restricted to doing much for upgrades considering the size of the pump and whatnot. Keep in mind there is the odd fellow around here who are pushing 600+ with one;)

The 2nd gen 12v's are awesome for making power. You do need to realize the pump size and hp/tq rating do get gradually larger as the years progresses. Thus meaning a 98 12v has the biggest and best power setup stock so I'd try and shoot for one of these suckers;). As said they have their ups and downs as well... KDP and the front ends aren't as 'tough and rough' as the 1st gens so you might find yourself replacing the odd part here and there.
(Yes I like the 12v's :) )

Then with the 24v's you've got your Lift pump and Injection pump troubles(One leads to another so it's moreorless just the LP). The 53 block issue can ge avoided so it's not an issue.

And Finally you've got your 3rd gens. Really I've got nothing much to say on them other than they're all computerized and take all the fun out of modding [whistle] ... Just kidding fellas [laugh]. Just do some searching on them and you'll be able to decide on one.

Oh and heres a site on the Dowel Pin as well:
KDP

Mike

If you are looking for the 4-500 hp go with the 24v. The 12v can only make it up to 4-450 I think depending on which fuel pump it has. The later model (97-98) have a different pump and can go higher I think. But the 12v get expensive to go over the 450 make. The 24v may be more expensive to get to 300 because you have to buy a chip but they can go much higher.

As for the 3rd gens., I have no clue.

12V ram

easy to BOMB, up until you get into the 550 or so range, then you need some serious twins, some serious water injection, pump work, massive clutches and so forth, either ways i still think its cheaper than a 24V

but i speak from 376/902 at my rears so i dunno that much....

i do know that the manual 5600 is a better towing tranny (6 speed) the 4500 has some fifth gear nut issues and the KDP for you to worry about, however with the 24V that lift pump is a notorious failiure.. its all preference, you like electronic gizmos, then the 24V is for you, you like no electronics and like TQ over hp, then the 12V is for you, I dont understand why but they produce more tq than 24 V engines at comparable horsepower levels. Most cases at least.. Buckshot McKee has a similarly powered rig to mine and he has more TQ.. so it all varies. A good 12 is a piece of gold if you can come by it, and is a monster for extreme HP but anything over 550 or so is gonna need headwork and some serious cashflow to aqcuire..... So really for your needs or wants, its a matter of preference....

hope it helps

Tx

The big thing right now is we are going to look at a 99 Sport CTD 5 speed this weekend. It is about 200 miles away. Would it be a waiste if it is a "53" to buy it. The thing is suppose to be in exceptional shape. The "53" scares me, should I be?

some ppl run them no problem

Timmay2 has one i think with no problems, my guess is tho they are just as good, as others, but if you draw a 53 block you might wanna go less on the BOMBing.... he is stock though

By the way, where are my manners? Welcome to DTR new friend! i was a ford man too once upon a time... :D

Tx

I think everyone has made good points about the different variations of the Cummins powered Dodge trucks...

for any of these trucks, you're going to need a certain amount of money to get that magical 4-500 rwhp.

1.) this is always number one, you're going to need gauges... EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, Trans Temp.... not necessarily in that order but you're going to need some combination of those depending on what rig you're driving.

2.) you're going to end up putting on a larger turbo to provide the air to burn the necessary fuel and keep your EGT's in check.

3.) you're going to either need a new clutch or a built auto transmission to put that power to the ground.

I'm not really familiar with the 12V or the HPCR so I won't comment on those but on a 24V(like the 99 you're thinking of looking at) you're going to need to do some combination of these things

a.) upgrade the fuel delivery system... either with an aftermarket system, a pusher pump, a relocated stock pump, larger lines, etc.... you'll want to do this to provide the fuel for the power and the fuel to keep the VP-44 happy.

b.) wire tap fueling box. Edge Comp, TST PM3 or similar... check out the performance shop or just ask for peoples opinions on what box they run... you're gonna get a lot of feedback and it'll be up to you to decide which one you want to run, if you decide to do that. You'll need at least a boost fooler regardless(I think all the performance chips have this capability)...

c.) injectors. I'll go ahead and say it... ask Don M, everyone raves about his Mach series injectors... my brother runs a set of rather large injectors from Don and I must say they are NICE. Plenty of other companies make injectors

obviously you could use other methods to obtain 4-500 hp....

12v are definately not limited to 450 hp.

I would bet that a 96 to 98 12v would be cheaper to get into the 500 hp range than a 24v.

My mistake. I heard some of my friends saying that it was going to be hard to go over that mark, maybe they just meant that it was going to take a lot of money (twins).

Most of the times more power will always cost you money. Grinding a plate is almost free, but anyway.

Seen a couple of truck around the 500 - 550 hp mark with a single turbo. On both 12 or 24 valve trucks.