rjm022

amsoil's new 5w-40 oil for the 07's is backwards compatible if you choose to use that type oil in pre 07 diesels

araratboy

I was a New Holland equipment service meeting. One of our service reps was talking to the engineers that make our oil. He was told that the new oil had a low ash content so not to plug the particle filter and the change interval needed to be cut in half from what it used to be.

edwinsmith

What I got from this article is that the problem is with the engine NOT the oil. The 07 engines use higher EGR which causes more nitric acid formation which reduces the longevity of the oil. They had hoped for greater longevity with the ULSD because of less Sulfuric acid formation but the extra nitric acid negates that.

Since 1'st gens don't use EGR I guess I don't need to worry but I'll keep looking at the issue.

Edwin

johnh

"We'll know more in a few months, but right now, [CJ-4] is very much performing to expectations," he said. "The only surprise is the nitric acid levels we've seen. In pre-'07 engines, there are no issues - it's backward compatible and works well. Due to its new formulation, our CJ-4 blend provides better soot handling, wear protection, and oxidation control than our CI-4 Plus blend. So it's a step up in many ways in terms of protecting engines."

nelrod

Thanks RowJ. I have been following this also, but just as a layperson, not in oil industry. I came to the conclusion that here in the hot South, I would use the 15-40 Marine and H. Duty Diesel oil by Amsoil. Has TBN of 12. I guess one could use new stuff and do UOA and see how it does, but I'll just stick with "pre-07" oil. Keep us posted. Thanks for taking time to inform.

TexasCTD

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=136899


Rowland, thanks for bringing this topic back up. I started the thread above back in February asking questions about this oil....when I noticed Walmart only had the new Rotella formula in stock. I found some more CI-4+ oil at a Carquest and changed it again and waited another 5000 miles, but never heard anything negative about the newer blend.........so I went with it this last oil change. So far I can't tell any difference in the way the engine is running. I will most likely go ahead and get it tested at Blackstone Labs when I change again in another 1300 miles or so, just to see what if any difference it made.

RowJ

Guys, for those of you looking mostly at the lower TBN # on CJ-4...your missing the major point, IMO.
It's the lower zinc content, causing engine wear, that worrys me!
The first casualty I heard of was in a race car (not unusual that lubrication problems show at the track first). In a high performance gas/methanol powered car, the engine builder reported three camshafts "flattened" within a two month period... from using the newer SM rated oil.

Hohn - I don't know where to tell you to look. Just read the labels and find older stock. I would buy a few changes worth if you find it...might be a while, if ever, before this craziness gets sorted out.
I'm not going to cross swords again on API classifications!

Jon - PM your e-mail and I'll send you a copy!

Mickey5978 - I'm a big fan of Amsoils Marine Diesel 15-40 Oil. If I could not get my own brand, at cost, I would be using it. I ran it 10,000 miles on the same Fleetguard Filter (as a test) and the oil analysis was excellent!

araraboy - lower ash content has been around for a few yrs and is 'backwards compatible'... and good, IMO. Cutting the change interval in half is reaction to something else, I would think, but I don't see it solving the lower zinc level issue.

TEXASCTD - The only difference I would expect to see in your oil analysis is lower zinc levels in the additive section. Loss of protection from less zinc may or may not show up the first time around. If it shows,you will see higher levels of iron and copper... indicating increased wear.

RJ

RowJ

BE careful with the new CJ-4 oil....and the SM oil for gassers. Lower zinc levels are causing problems.
New thread HERE

RJ

infidel

Seems to me that since CJ-4 oils have been out for over a year (Delo 2 years now) that if they were truly destructive that we would have heard very, very much from the trucking industry where many trucks put on way more than 10,000 miles a month.
I have to wonder if this is just a tactic by Lubrizol Additive Company to sell a "cure".

2broke2smoke

exactly ...

RowJ

Bill, it's certainly possible? I tried to state what I had learned without being to definitive!

This is from Chevron in August 2006...
"In June, Chevron was the first to announce that its new diesel engine oils, including Delo 400 ....... had passed all American Petroleum Institute (API) and U.S. original equipment manufacturer (OEM) tests required to meet the new API CJ-4 diesel engine oil specification."
So it's been just a yr! Official certification (and serious production) of CJ-4 was not till Oct 16, 2006.

Aditional wear showing up after 10,000 miles could mean several different things... from a small increase in PPM of engine metals in oil samples, to a serious problem! I don't know for sure.
I am always surprised by how many truck fleets, that I deal with, can't be bothered to do an oil analysis program... so many may not be aware? Again, I don't know...for sure.

But I do believe the serious reduction of ZDDP (zinc) in diesel engine oil will have a long term and major effect in shorthening the life of motors. You agree?

Note: for you technology buffs...
ZDDP = Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphate
ZDDP is a single polar molecule that is attracted to Iron based metals. One polar end tends to “Stand” the molecule up on the metal surface that it is bonded to by heat and friction. This forms a sacrificial layer to protect the base metal. ZDDP is essential in high pressure, metal to metal areas. This high pressure is present in flat tappet cams and on the wrist pin in diesel engines, therefore the need for ZDDP in all diesel engines.

RJ

TonyB

Analysis image got approved last night....


The good: wear metals are ALL within baseline measurements; soot/solids is ~100x better.

The not so good: Zinc is ~300ppm lower, TBN is ~3 points lower.

The only thing that worrys me about the, so far, is the lower TBN. I'll have to pull a sample for VOA.

Tony

adamrc

I found this link from Valvoline related to the new CJ-4 oils.

http://www.valvoline-technology.com/...gine%20Oil.pdf

RowJ

Have done more research and found some hard facts.
Zinc content in Chevrons additive package for CJ-4 is down from .94% by weight... to .12% by weight! This .94 was considerably higher than industry standards so the nation wide reduction is not a much as these #'s make it look.

Average reduction on zinc content, in major brands, for CJ-4 oils seems to be about 1/2 what it use to be... which is not as serious as I originally thought. (This might explain the recommendations to change oil twice as often).The SM oils for gas engines are the more serious concern...having greater reduction.

Still, I would buy CI-4 oil whenever possible... for 06's and earlier!

But for those interested...specialty brands like Amsoil, Sheaffer, R. Purple, Red Line etc. are holding the line on ZDDP additive around 1.4-1.5% by weight, as best I can determine! That's a big difference in protection if you have added hp in your CTD. My $.02

RJ

Mt Ram

John Deere has a bulletin out that they will NOT be changing their oil to the new CJ-4 classification.