FASS filtration deception.
07-02-2010, 08:01 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
FASS filtration deception.
I recently discovered that the water separator that FASS provides with their dual filter systems is not a water separator. It's only a 100 micron screen filter. FASS will not provide performance specs on it's ability to trap water because THERE ARE NONE.
Yet they claim the FS1023 is a water separator.
Fleetmaster (Fleetguard) is the source of this information. FASS will not address the question.
This is outright deception unless FASS can legitimately show otherwise.
I challenge FASS to come explain why it is not deception. I am one of many who have discovered the same facts... or lack of.
We all should know that water is one of the worst contaminants to effect our CR injection system. I was under the impression that paying all of that money was worth the protection.
Lets open this up to discussion and get some answers.
Yet they claim the FS1023 is a water separator.
Fleetmaster (Fleetguard) is the source of this information. FASS will not address the question.
This is outright deception unless FASS can legitimately show otherwise.
I challenge FASS to come explain why it is not deception. I am one of many who have discovered the same facts... or lack of.
We all should know that water is one of the worst contaminants to effect our CR injection system. I was under the impression that paying all of that money was worth the protection.
Lets open this up to discussion and get some answers.
07-08-2010, 04:15 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
07-08-2010, 05:22 PM
#6
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It has a drain. Water goes to the bottom, drain it until diesel comes out. Much like the factory water seperator/filter combo. It doesn't pick water out while the engine is running, as the water will be emulsified in the fuel. You're supposed to drain it before the engine starts when everything is settled out.
07-08-2010, 05:36 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Tate I'm sorry but with all due respect you don't know what you are talking about. Good water separators strip almost ALL water, even emulsified.
The FS1023 does not have a listed percentage for water removal. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.
Date: 06/30/2010 02:56 PM
Subject: Re: Information on FS 1023
----------
From: Michael
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 12:55 PM
To: fleetmaster.us@cummins.com
I am confused. Do you have another filter of similar design (stainless steel screen) that has specs for me to get an idea?
Mike
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From: <fleetmaster.us@cummins.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 3:25 PM
To: Michael
The wire mesh has no water stripping ability. The drain is on this type of filter in cases for when the filter is sitting overnight and the water in the fuel seperates to the bottom. This allows the water to be drained off of the unit.
Date: 07/01/2010 11:55 AM
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From: Michael
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 3:35 PM
To: fleetmaster.us@cummins.com
So this filter is a 100 micron prefilter and is not designed to remove water?
Thank you,
Mike
----------
From: <fleetmaster.us@cummins.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:08 PM
To: Michael
That is correct. It is basically there to catch the large particles that would quickly plug a much tighter secondary filter. This can have water drained from it but is not designed to remove water.
Date: 07/01/2010 02:35 PM
The FS1023 does not have a listed percentage for water removal. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.
Date: 06/30/2010 02:56 PM
Subject: Re: Information on FS 1023
----------
From: Michael
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 12:55 PM
To: fleetmaster.us@cummins.com
I am confused. Do you have another filter of similar design (stainless steel screen) that has specs for me to get an idea?
Mike
----------
From: <fleetmaster.us@cummins.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 3:25 PM
To: Michael
The wire mesh has no water stripping ability. The drain is on this type of filter in cases for when the filter is sitting overnight and the water in the fuel seperates to the bottom. This allows the water to be drained off of the unit.
Date: 07/01/2010 11:55 AM
----------
From: Michael
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 3:35 PM
To: fleetmaster.us@cummins.com
So this filter is a 100 micron prefilter and is not designed to remove water?
Thank you,
Mike
----------
From: <fleetmaster.us@cummins.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:08 PM
To: Michael
That is correct. It is basically there to catch the large particles that would quickly plug a much tighter secondary filter. This can have water drained from it but is not designed to remove water.
Date: 07/01/2010 02:35 PM
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07-08-2010, 07:52 PM
#8
Registered User
It has a drain. Water goes to the bottom, drain it until diesel comes out. Much like the factory water seperator/filter combo. It doesn't pick water out while the engine is running, as the water will be emulsified in the fuel. You're supposed to drain it before the engine starts when everything is settled out.
07-09-2010, 08:19 AM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
You get the feeling they are trying to keep people buying filters from them. I don't mind that so much but at least sell one that is as good as or better than the stock system.
07-09-2010, 08:48 AM
#13
Administrator
We are closing this thread temporarily until we can make contact with Brad Eckstam @ FASS to explain this to the Members.
----------------
John_P (Admin)
----------------
John_P (Admin)
07-09-2010, 07:02 PM
#14
Administrator
Update on this for all DTR Members:
Brad Eckstam from FASS and his Technicians will be in here by Monday to discuss this issue with all of you.
-----------------
John_P (Admin.)
Brad Eckstam from FASS and his Technicians will be in here by Monday to discuss this issue with all of you.
-----------------
John_P (Admin.)
07-13-2010, 08:04 AM
#15
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Location: Marthasville, Mo 63357
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FASS Fuel Filters
We definitely understand your area of concern and we have been working on improving the filter situation for about 3 months now. Here is some of the information and knowledge we have about the filters on the Titanium & HD Series.
As we have been discovering in discussions with different filter manufactures there are many variable’s when performing filtration test causing different results even with the same media, as seen in the following paragraph. We have also discovered that the exact same media will have a water separation reading in one filter as to where another filter having the exact same media will not have a reading for water separation. There is an example of this also, so there is some reading in-between the lines required.
The Titanium Series water separator WS-2001 (Fleetguards # FS19768) and the HD Series’ water separator WS-1001 (Fleetguards # FS1023) is a 140 micron stainless/steel serviceable wire mesh. These two elements are made of the exact same material; the only difference is that one has more material than the other. The FS19768 has a water separation efficiency rating of 50% per pass which was tested on 10-26-09, as to where the FS1023 has a 0% efficiency rating tested on 8-10-07. This type of media has water separating capability as they were also used for Caterpillar’s A, B and C model mechanical engines in heavy duty equipment.
Remember they have a 50% rating per pass; this is one reason for the MASS Volume Return which the FASS incorporates. The majority of the fuel that passes through the FASS is polished and returned to the fuel tank to be polished again, now for the 2nd stage of water filtration.
Before the fuel exits back to the fuel tank or passes through to the engine the fuel must pass through the 3 or 10 micron Stratapore element found in our FF-1010 or FF-2003. This element has the same exact water separating capabilities as the very popular Fleetguard FS1000 at a 95% water separation capability. The only difference between the element found in the FF-2003, Titanium Series fuel filter, and the FS1000 is the micron rating. The FS1000 has a drain on the bottom as to where ours doesn’t, we believe the bulk of the water will be captured in the water separator and remaining water will be captured in the fuel filter.
As stated in the opening paragraphs we have been in discussions with Racor, Baldwin, Donaldson just to name a few over the last 3 months and have been discovering ways to improve filtration. The FASS systems for the pick up market leaving our facility now have water separating capabilities ranging from 90 – 95% efficiencies. Here are a few examples of the filters we are using with their water separating efficiencies:
Water Separators:
Titanium Series:
1. FS19594 90%
2. P550550 90%
HD Series:
1. P551001 96%
2. FS1001 95%
We are researching fuel filters to improve water separating capabilities with our 3 micron filter for the HD Series. We had the understanding Fleetguard was using the 3 micron version of the Stratapore element for the Titanium Series fuel filter (#FF-2003), which they are not.
Many customers run the FASS Systems for different reasons, including improving injector issues. These customers have experienced improved injector life both in the pickup & class 8 markets. However there is always room to improve and that is what FASS is known for and committed to doing. We have demonstrated this in the past and will continue to do so; remember some of the noise issues? We now received a few calls to where the customer thought their FASS wasn’t running only to discover it was performing they just had to put their ear next to the bed to hear it running. Now we are releasing the FASS Fuel Systems with superior filtration. We are always researching and discovering ways to improve and build customer loyalty! We accomplish this usually by being proactive but sometimes Murphy’s Law hits us and we have to be re-active and we apologize for this. We appreciate your past and continuing support!
Ashley Barnhill
As we have been discovering in discussions with different filter manufactures there are many variable’s when performing filtration test causing different results even with the same media, as seen in the following paragraph. We have also discovered that the exact same media will have a water separation reading in one filter as to where another filter having the exact same media will not have a reading for water separation. There is an example of this also, so there is some reading in-between the lines required.
The Titanium Series water separator WS-2001 (Fleetguards # FS19768) and the HD Series’ water separator WS-1001 (Fleetguards # FS1023) is a 140 micron stainless/steel serviceable wire mesh. These two elements are made of the exact same material; the only difference is that one has more material than the other. The FS19768 has a water separation efficiency rating of 50% per pass which was tested on 10-26-09, as to where the FS1023 has a 0% efficiency rating tested on 8-10-07. This type of media has water separating capability as they were also used for Caterpillar’s A, B and C model mechanical engines in heavy duty equipment.
Remember they have a 50% rating per pass; this is one reason for the MASS Volume Return which the FASS incorporates. The majority of the fuel that passes through the FASS is polished and returned to the fuel tank to be polished again, now for the 2nd stage of water filtration.
Before the fuel exits back to the fuel tank or passes through to the engine the fuel must pass through the 3 or 10 micron Stratapore element found in our FF-1010 or FF-2003. This element has the same exact water separating capabilities as the very popular Fleetguard FS1000 at a 95% water separation capability. The only difference between the element found in the FF-2003, Titanium Series fuel filter, and the FS1000 is the micron rating. The FS1000 has a drain on the bottom as to where ours doesn’t, we believe the bulk of the water will be captured in the water separator and remaining water will be captured in the fuel filter.
As stated in the opening paragraphs we have been in discussions with Racor, Baldwin, Donaldson just to name a few over the last 3 months and have been discovering ways to improve filtration. The FASS systems for the pick up market leaving our facility now have water separating capabilities ranging from 90 – 95% efficiencies. Here are a few examples of the filters we are using with their water separating efficiencies:
Water Separators:
Titanium Series:
1. FS19594 90%
2. P550550 90%
HD Series:
1. P551001 96%
2. FS1001 95%
We are researching fuel filters to improve water separating capabilities with our 3 micron filter for the HD Series. We had the understanding Fleetguard was using the 3 micron version of the Stratapore element for the Titanium Series fuel filter (#FF-2003), which they are not.
Many customers run the FASS Systems for different reasons, including improving injector issues. These customers have experienced improved injector life both in the pickup & class 8 markets. However there is always room to improve and that is what FASS is known for and committed to doing. We have demonstrated this in the past and will continue to do so; remember some of the noise issues? We now received a few calls to where the customer thought their FASS wasn’t running only to discover it was performing they just had to put their ear next to the bed to hear it running. Now we are releasing the FASS Fuel Systems with superior filtration. We are always researching and discovering ways to improve and build customer loyalty! We accomplish this usually by being proactive but sometimes Murphy’s Law hits us and we have to be re-active and we apologize for this. We appreciate your past and continuing support!
Ashley Barnhill