I am in the process of buying an F650 Pickup to do some towing as well as have it as my 4x4 vehicle. I was wondering if any of the great places we use for Cummins happen to do any work on the C7 Cat? With 7.2L and 960 ft.lbs. out of the box you would think that you could have that engine over 2000 ft.lbs. with not too much problem. Anyone know of any products out there or even where to look for such stuff ?

 

Look up Pittsburgh Power I believe my cousin has taken his big truck to them and I know he's running a cat.

 

Edge makes a 40HP box for the 3126B & E...which is the predecessor to the C7!

The problem with them, is they use HEUI injection...like a PowerJoke. So you can't go raising injection pressure too high, or you trash injectors and the high pressure oil pump. It would cost A LOT to turn that thing up very far!

Your local CAT dealer should be able to take it to 300hp for you, maybe ever 330-350 if you talk nice!

Chris

 

Thanks guys. The stock motor has 330HP so I am hoping that SOMETHING can be done. I take it you can NOT twin turbo the motor like you can the big 14L ISX motors because of the injection problem mentioned above ??

I wonder if I could get the F650 with a Cummins instead ?

 

You can get the 5.9 in the F-650.

 

TS performance makes one also. Personally I'd stick with the Cat, the cummins is the 5.9 and it's not the same as the dodge version, (it uses the cummins ecm) so I don't know if any of the boxes would work on it and 275hp and 660tq would be gutless. 350hp and 860tq sounds nice expecially with a TS Performance MP-8, which says up to 100hp and 200tq (not sure if that for the Cat though) even an extra 50 would help. If you get the allison be aware it EATS alot of power. I friend drives an f-750 with the C7 turned down to 230hp, it has the allison and it won't get out of it's own way loaded.


EDIT: the ts box works on the Cummins ISBE also, but even then it would still be alot less power than the Cat with the same upgrades.

 

Just out of curiousity, what are you towing that the Ram can't handle? Is you Lambo trailer that big or do you have another toy?

F650 engine options:
Caterpillar CT Turbo Diesel 190-300 HP, 520-860 lbs-ft Torque.
Cummins ISB 5.9L Turbo Diesel 185-275 HP, 420-660 lbs-ft Torque.
Power Stroke 6.0L Turbo Diesel 215-230 HP, 520-620 lbs-ft Torque.

Which engine probably doesn't last long at all in the heavier duty trucks? Hmmm...I wonder

 

Give a call to Dynomite Diesel. The injectors can be swapped, and bigger turbos are available - the stock turbo on those motors is the basis for a lot of high-buck turbos for our trucks. The Edge box is a waste, put a 6k ohm resistor on the HPOP sensor (same as 10k mod on a 7.3 PSD) and you'll have about the same results.

That rating of C7 Cat has steel top pistons and can stand thermonuclear EGT's. The 300/860 unit in my work truck runs 1200 degrees post turbo this time of year on a long hill. Probably in the neighborhood of 1500 in the manifold.

 

I work on them all day everyday here at work. The C7 has not proven to be as good of an engine compared to the older 3126E engines with prefixes above 8YL.

The KAL and HEP prefix engines had real problems out of the box with there injectors as well as the check valve springs in the HEUI pump breaking and contaminating the HEUI system. The newer SAP and WAX prefix engines seemed to have gotten rid of the troublesome injectors during cold mode (when engine is below 150*) and have fixed the HEUI pump. However, I cannot tell you how many new undelivered trucks and RVs in transport have came in with broken turbo shafts. It wouldnt be so bad, however, with the ACERT system, when a turbo sends oil out the exhaust, you have to replace the particulate filter, which alone is well over a grand. A couple of the WAX prefix engines have come through hydrolocked requiring new complete engines.

On all of the 3126 and and C7 engines, valve adjustment is crucial. The number 1 failure of the smaller CATs are dropped valves due to lack of valve adjustment. The stems arent very big.

If your looking to really raise the horsepower, the C7 isnt what your looking for. The HEUI system is really gonna hold you back as well as the CAT electronics. The max hp under warranty for a C7 is 350 and then you have to determine if any "iron changes are needed" or cooling system upgrades.

FWIW,,next year brings a big change to the C7, yes, finnally, they are going to common rail, so you may want to wait. However, a spark plug, coolant and fuel will be flowing through the downpipe on the 07 engines on models up to the C15.

Quite a system for sure, they are getting there EGR gas from the outlet of the particulate filter which is cooler and cleaner than closer to the engine. In order to clean the filter, very hot fuel wil be sprayed into the downpipe and ignited with a spark plug, eventually cleaning out the DPF.
The only big problem that is occuring so far is the amount of condensation, or water, that is coming out of the stack. With this system, you can actually take a white rag and wipe the inside of the stack and the rag will come back out clean.

 

Thanks guys for all your input! I wish that the F-650 came with a REAL engine. From what it sounds like, the C7 is crap!!

To answer someone's question, my Lambo trailer is a 2/3 car stacker that loaded is around 23,000 so the Dodge is a little outmatched. I have a Semi being built but really wanted the F-650 for a 4x4 and for towing to more local events. Oh well, I guess I will have to wait and see what can be done with the common rail in the '07?

Any idea on when it's being released ?

 

surely your decked out dodge can pull 23,000lbs if my lil ole 02 can pull 40,000 lbs

 

What is the interval for valve adjustment?? We just bought a FL70 with a 210hp 3126E...has just under 100K miles! Anything I should look at?? Any problems with turning it up to ~275 if I can get CAT to do it?

Thanks Monty,
Chris

 

Can it? Sure. Should it ? Hell NO!!

A 1-ton is just not designed to safely haul that kind of weight. Sure, the engine has to power to pull it without that much of a problem but the brakes, frame, etc. were never made to handle it. I would be towing this all over the place and just do not want to risk it. And my big trailer that is being built will probably end up in the 40-50,000 lb. range and that is for the Kenworth to haul! LOL

 

Why not take a look at some of the smaller Freightliners, Peterbilts, and KW's with the hauler beds on em. We use to have a FL70 toterhome with the 3126B pulling a 48' 3 car stacker featherlite with a lounge and then we had a FL70 4 door with a flatbed that towed that same trailer.

Take a look in my gallery I have a few pics of the toterhome with the smaller trailer.

 

Never even gave that a thought. The place that I haul lumber out of has a 04 t300 KW with the shortest wheelbase they could get. It has an 8' flatbed and is used to pull a 38' roller trailer for jobsite deliveries, and it was only like $54,000. It has a HEAVY driveline with air ride and could have had 4wd but they got cheap. It's also a whole lot better truck than the f series ford and has alot more options. You can buy used ones cheap and have the frame shortened, just an idea.