im sure this has been answered but the search engine didn't pull the answer for me

will my 05 run on biodiesel? is there a limit to the ratio of fuel to bio 80/20 70/30

what kind of problem may it cause? will it void my warranty?

 

ok found a thread or two, didn't see any definitive answers in them

 

Search for biodiesel with infidels screen name. I want to say over 20% was where problems could start to surface under the right circumstances with the common rail engines. Had to do with the high preasure from the rail changing the chemical makeup of the fuel causing clogged filters.

 

You can safely use B50 on a common rail, any more and you're taking a chance.
It all depends on what the BD is made from, something that can be very difficult to find out for sure.

 

Great Information on http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/.
This site is full of good information from how it works to how to make it and use it at 100%.

 

Right now Cummins is allowing only B5 biodiesel for now and retain warranty.

 

thanks, haven't seen a station yet that even carries any but ill keep my eye out

i know the one truck stop here in denver caries it but its a haul for me to get there

 

Yes, you can run 100% biodiesel, but it is said to cause damage to rubber seals in your fuel system. It has a lower cetane rating(less power generating)
True, Dodge doesn't recommend running it in concentrations above 5%. I found biodiesel.org very informative on the subject of biodiesel. It is also said to burn craeating a french fry smell, and releasing much less pollution than diesel.
Cheers
Bekim
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No, the reason B100 isn't recommended for the common rail is because it's high pressures and temperatures cause the BD to become stringy at the microscopic level (polymerize). Polymerized return fuel clogs the filter rapidly.
The level of polymerization depends on what type of oil crop the BD is made from. Research is underway for an additive to prevent this but so far I haven't heard of one.
Research has proven that a mix of 50% or less doesn't cause this problem.

 

I don't know where you get your info from, but mine is from Cummins own site. When I offer info., I can back it up with facts 100% of the time!!!!
Right off the Cummins website FAQ:
What is Cummins' position on the use of Biodiesel fuel in Cummins engines?
BackgroundWith increased interest in emissions and reducing the use of petroleum distillate based fuels, some governments and regulating bodies are encouraging the use of bio fuels. Biodiesel fuels should be considered experimental at this time. Governmental incentives and/or environmental legislation to use bio fuels may have an impact on the sales and use of Cummins engines. This document outlines Cummins criteria and parameters when using biodiesel fuel.SME or SOME 'Soy Methyl Ester' Diesel is the most common bio diesel in the U.S. and is derived from soybean oil. Soy Diesel is a biodiesel/petrodiesel blend based on SME. RME 'Rape Methyl Ester' Diesel is the most common biodiesel in Europe and is derived from rapeseed oil. These fuels are collectively known as Fatty Acid Methyl Esters (FAME).Fuel CharacteristicsBiodiesel fuels are methyl/ethyl ester-based oxygenates derived from a broad variety of renewable sources such as vegetable oils, animal fats, and cooking oils. Their properties are similar to diesel fuel, as opposed to gasoline or gaseous fuels, and thus are capable of being used in compression ignition engines. Biodiesel fuels have a lower energy content; about 89% of #2 diesel fuel, and is therefore a less efficient fuel. Its higher viscosity range (1.9-6.0 centistokes) vs 1.3-5.8 centistokes for diesel) helps offset the lower energy content through reduced barrel/plunger leakage resulting in slightly improved injection efficiency. Combining lower energy content and slightly improved injection efficiency, biodiesel fuel provides 5-7% less energy per gallon compared to diesel fuel. The cetane value of biodiesel fuel is 40 minimum compared to 42 minimum for Cummins diesel fuel specification. Biodiesel fuel has improved lubricity compared to standard diesel fuel.There are provisional specifications for FAME issued in Germany under DIN V 51 606, and also recently through ASTM PS-121, however these standards are under development and are subject to change. For additional information, refer to the Cummins diesel fuel specifications listed in Table 1 and to the ASTM provisional specification PS-121 for biodiesel fuels.EmissionsIt is the responsibility of the user to obtain the proper local, regional, and/or national exemptions required for the use of biodiesel in any emissions regulated Cummins engine. From the Comprehensive Health and Environmental Effects testing, a fuel blend consisting of 20% biodiesel and 80% diesel fuel (B20) can yield percent reductions ranging from 16-33% in particulates, 11-25% in Carbon Monoxide (CO), and 19-32% in Hydrocarbon (HC) emissions. The B20 biodiesel fuel blend will cause an increase in NOx of 2%.Performance and Durability ResultsCummins test data on the operating effects of biodiesel fuels indicates that typically smoke, power, and fuel economy are all reduced. However, as there are no firm industry standards on the content and properties for bio fuels, consistency and predictability of biodiesel operation is not well documented.Biodiesel provides approximately 5-7% less energy per gallon of fuel when compared to distillate fuels. To avoid engine problems when the engine is converted back to 100% distillate diesel fuel, do not change the engine rating to compensate for the power loss when operated with biodiesel fuels.Elastomer compatibility with bio diesel is still being monitored. The condition of seals, hoses, gaskets, and wire coatings should be monitored regularly.Cummins certifies its engines using the prescribed EPA and European Certification Fuels. Cummins does not certify engines on any other fuel. It is the user's responsibility to use the correct fuel as recommended by the manufacturer and allowed by EPA or other local regulatory agencies. In the United States, the EPA allows use of only registered fuels for on-highway applications. The EPA has additional alternative fuel information at:http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/fue...fuels.htmGiven the current industry understanding of bio fuels and blending with quality diesel fuel, it would be expected that blending up to a 5% volume concentration should not cause serious problems. For customers intent on blending bio fuels above a 5% volume concentration, the following concerns represent what is currently known in the industry. Concentrations beyond 5% by volume could have an adverse effect on the engine's performance and the fuel system integrity/durability. The affects are more serious with increasing concentration levels.Areas of concern when operating with biodiesel fuels include low temperature operability (fuel gelation, filter plugging), heat content (poor fuel economy), and storage and thermal stability (filter plugging, injector deposits). The oil change interval can be affected by the use of biodiesel fuels and some applications may require shortening intervals to half of the diesel equivalent. Lube oil dilution in applications with significant part load operation will fall under this guideline.In addition, from Cummins' fuel systems suppliers, the following issues are also noted: swelling and hardening/cracking of some elastomer seals within the fuel system/engine, corrosion of fuel system and engine hardware - especially aluminum and zinc, solid particle blockage of fuel nozzles and passages, filter plugging, injector coking, higher injection pressures due to physical flow properties - reduced fuel system life, added stress and heat to injection components - especially rotary fuel pumps - increased pump seizures and early life failures, poor fuel spray atomization - reduced fuel economy. Pure biodiesel fuel is not stable and its acid content increases over time which can damage powder metal componentsFuel System Vehicle Issues and StorageThe oil change interval can be affected by the use of biodiesel fuel. End users are advised to use oil sampling to monitor the engine oil condition and to determine the optimum oil change interval. Pure biodiesel fuel can cause a chemical reaction with lube oil resulting in oil sludging.Elastomer compatibility with biodiesel is still being monitored. The condition of seals, hoses, gaskets, and wire coatings should be monitored regularly.Biodiesel fuels contain residual alcohol from the esterification process, which can remove deposits from fuel tanks and lines causing filter plugging during initial testing. The fuel system should be flushed with this fuel before operation, and the fuel filters will need frequent replacement in the early stages of operation in older units.Biodiesel fuels may pose low ambient temperature problems for both storage and operation. At low ambient temperatures, fuel may need to be stored in a heated building or a heated storage tank. The fuel system may require heated fuel lines, filters, and tanks. Filters may plug and fuel in the tank may solidify at low ambient temperatures if precautions are not taken. Consult your bio diesel supplier for assistance in the blending and attainment of the proper cloud point fuel.Biodiesel has poor oxidation stability, which can result in long term storage problems. The poor oxidation stability qualities may accelerate fuel oxidation in the fuel system. This is especially true in engines with electronic fuel systems because they operate at higher temperatures. Consult the fuel supplier for oxidation stability additives.Biodiesel fuel is an excellent medium for microbial growth. Microbes cause fuel system corrosion and premature filter plugging. The effectiveness of conventional anti-microbial additives, when used in biodiesel is not known. Consult your fuel and additive supplier for assistance.Care must be taken to remove water from fuel tanks. Water accelerates microbial growth. Water is naturally more prevalent in biodiesel fuels than in distillate fuels.Warranty and the use of Biodiesel Fuel in Cummins EnginesCummins neither approves or disapproves of the use of biodiesel fuel. Cummins is not in a position to evaluate the many variations of biodiesel fuels or other additives, and their long-term effects on performance, durability or emissions compliance of Cummins products. The use of biodiesel fuel does not affect Cummins Material and Workmanship warranty. Failures caused by the use of biodiesel fuels or other fuel additives are NOT defects of workmanship and/or material as supplied by Cummins Inc. and CANNOT be compensated under the Cummins' warranty.Bosch states in their Diesel Fuel Quality -- Common Position Paper (03/05/99) that no guarantee on FIE is given so far to any alternative fuel except for Diesel + 5% FAME. There is a major difference between operating on pure (100% concentration) biodiesel fuels and biodiesel/petro diesel fuel blends.From the ASTM provisional specification PS-121, Base 100% biodiesel must meet the following specifications before being mixed : See for yourself:

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.j...x=4&index=3#Q2

Let's get our facts straight!
Cheers
Bekim
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Bekim welcome to the forum. I'd suggest you do a little more research before you start trying to discredit people around here...there aren't TOO many that bs without any substantial facts behind what they post. Of course there are exceptions, but this is not one of them. Bosch reported this a few years back when testing with the mercedes cdi engines, and correct me if I'm wrong, but infidel has done laboratory research on this very subject with our exact engines..

I would concur, do not run more than b50 in a common rail engine, however in general b20 is the most recommended mix. It allows a wider variance of temperatures, and aside from its environmental and domestic benefits provides a nice cetane and lubricity boost without a ridiculous increase in cost. Checking biodiesel.org will reveal a map of distributors and retail stations across the country. B20 public pumps are popping up pretty rapidly.

 

Speak for yourself. The info on FAQ page you linked to has been around far longer than the Cummins CRI engine and hasn't changed.
Go ahead and run some B100 in your '04 and tell us how far you get. Our brand new '03 made it 980 miles before the filter plugged using refinery ASTM certified grade B100. This is a commonly reported problem.
It now has around 125k solely on B20 - B50 without any engine related problems.

Do a google search for biodiesel polymerization "common rail injection" for more proof if you'd like.
I believe you won't even have to leave the google results page to see that I'm right.

 

The subject here is biodiesel and Cummins motors. Let's stay on the subject and stay away from personal comments. Let's try to be helpful and informative to our fellow CTD brothers.
My inclusion of a page from the Cummins web site speaks for itself. If you read it, it also confirms what you and Infidel said about concentration run.
Biodiesel is, however, lower in cetane rationg than dino diesel. That lower cetane rating is made up for in lubricity. ibid:Cummins page in previous post.
Respectfully,
Bekim
Cheers
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I find it amazing that I submit a page from the Cummins website that directly addresses the thread and I get hammered about getting it factually correct. The fact that the page dates back 3 years doesn't make the content any less factual!
Run whatever concentration you like. Personally, i'm an advocate of Biodiesel!
If there was a station within 50 miles of my house, I would be buying it myself.
Cheers
Bekim
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