*** this will make you mad (oil related)
03-13-2008, 11:16 AM
#46
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I think fuel prices are high, but not out of control. In the late 80's I paid $ .75 for chew and $ .75 for diesel. Now there about the same again. Copenhagen prices were raised slowly and fuel was not. I just read a study about how Americans worked 100 minutes for fuel to drive 100 miles in 1980, now we work 50 minutes to drive 100 miles. I still think there high enough for me to start making biodiesel, but not enough to park the Cummins. The study also said we will probably not see prices below $2.70 until 2010, but I dont think we will ever see below $3.00 again.
03-13-2008, 12:06 PM
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If the allegation were true (I don't know or have an opinion on that), it is Collusion and a gross federal offense of Antitrust Laws. Know your laws, lest you lose them!
03-13-2008, 02:12 PM
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so an internal memo from chevron, that states by reducing refining capacity, the petroleum industry will see huge profits, is a conspiracy theory? just because other factors, like a weak dollar and increased demand from china are in play, doesn't mean that the tactics taken by the oil companies to intentionally manipulate the market, aren't taking place.
Don't bring up the Venezuelan $0.25/gallon gas, because the government is subsidizing it...Chavez has to do something to keep the natives from getting restless. In fact, most third-world/non-industrialized governments subsidize the cost of fuel.
Your memo doesn't take into account that oil is bought on the commodities market. Speculators are driving the price up because of the volatility of the dollar...crude is sold to the highest bidder. The oil companies don't set the price of crude.
When the price of crude is out of hand, like it is now, then everything that relies on crude - gasoline, diesel, plastics, etc. - all get more expensive.
On a related note, here's the price of gas that people pay around the world:
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...ces/price.html
Most Western countries tax the hell out of gas, hence the high prices relative to some other economies.
03-13-2008, 02:54 PM
#49
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pronstar, no use trying to use logic with people who believe in conspiracy theories.
And the comments about Enron? Please... Enron was a multi-billion dollar ponzi scheme. Caveat emptor... let the buyer beware...
And the comments about Enron? Please... Enron was a multi-billion dollar ponzi scheme. Caveat emptor... let the buyer beware...
03-13-2008, 03:01 PM
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I guess economics isn't a popular college class for a reason
03-14-2008, 03:34 AM
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only someone incredibly naive, or trusting enough to believe every internet scam that comes into their in-box, would not understand that most times when corporations, politicians, etc. are accused of violating the law, or engaging in illegal business practices, they claim it's a big 'conspiracy theory'. lee ioccoca originally claimed it was a 'conspiracy theory' about chrysler selling vehicles with the odometers rolled back as new, ford originally claimed it was a 'conspiracy theory' about pinto's fuel tanks exploding from rear end collisons, the clintons originally claimed it was a 'conspiracy theory' about their involvment in whitewater- the only thing is , that they all turned out to be true. but you can keep believing that, even though the price of pump fuel started rising dramatically in the summer of '05 (before the weak dollar, before the price of a barrell of oil was anywhere close to $100, before ulsd, before katrina and rita), the 6 oil companies that control the u.s. market are being truthful and up front about how they are trying sooooo hard to open up new refineries, even though, throughout the '90's, they not only closed many refineries that they owned, but they actually bought up many just to close them down a short time later. sorry for the long post, but get a grip about 'conspiracy theory' = questioning the practices of the oil companies.
03-14-2008, 03:50 AM
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by this statement, i take it that you believe there is no need for the securities and exchange commission. when people invest in a company, directly or through mutual funds, they have no way to verify the information that the company releases about their finances to be true, so if a company is publicly listed, and claims certain things about their companies financial status, how would you suggest the 'buyer beware'. i'm sure that if you had asked enron executives, before it all hit the fan, about their company being a 'ponzi scheme', they would have claimed it was just a big 'conspiracy theory'.
03-14-2008, 11:24 AM
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Reading some of the comments makes me think!
Originally Posted by trik396 View Post
"Business is business. They want to make money just like you do and I do."
Someone posted about the oil companies closing down refineries, and how it's controlling.
Isn't that what we do in America? Most everyone wants money, and the only way to get it is control something!
1. You can CONTROL your behavior & attitude and maybe your family will GIVE you money. 2. You can CONTROL your time, work diligently and EARN money.
3. You may even CONTROL your time, work diligently AND CONTROL the work environment and earn even more money.
Number 3 is what most of us do or would like to do.
That's also what the Oil companies do/did. They controlled the number of refineries to some degree, the "tree huggers" bellered louder then others and got legislation in place to result in much greater cost to build refineries.
Well I was just thinking..... I've got a Ditch Witch trencher setting out back I haven't sold because I didn't want the guy creating additional competition for me. That's probably causing the price of installing water and electric lines in the area to increase. I better sell it so perhaps the price will go down!
I guess it all depends on what side of the fence we're on.
I've got a friend who works 80 miles off the shore of Angola. He says the cost to get the oil to the freighter is $6 barrel. They built a 2.1 Billion dollar plant 11 stories high, paid for in one year.
I hate the high prices also, but that's America. When we get disgusted enough something will change, until then we just whine.
Oh, and another thing we need to do to help is don't spend money we don't have. Sound Anti-American, but that's the real cause of the dollar being worth less (or is that one work)!
Originally Posted by trik396 View Post
"Business is business. They want to make money just like you do and I do."
Someone posted about the oil companies closing down refineries, and how it's controlling.
Isn't that what we do in America? Most everyone wants money, and the only way to get it is control something!
1. You can CONTROL your behavior & attitude and maybe your family will GIVE you money. 2. You can CONTROL your time, work diligently and EARN money.
3. You may even CONTROL your time, work diligently AND CONTROL the work environment and earn even more money.
Number 3 is what most of us do or would like to do.
That's also what the Oil companies do/did. They controlled the number of refineries to some degree, the "tree huggers" bellered louder then others and got legislation in place to result in much greater cost to build refineries.
Well I was just thinking..... I've got a Ditch Witch trencher setting out back I haven't sold because I didn't want the guy creating additional competition for me. That's probably causing the price of installing water and electric lines in the area to increase. I better sell it so perhaps the price will go down!
I guess it all depends on what side of the fence we're on.
I've got a friend who works 80 miles off the shore of Angola. He says the cost to get the oil to the freighter is $6 barrel. They built a 2.1 Billion dollar plant 11 stories high, paid for in one year.
I hate the high prices also, but that's America. When we get disgusted enough something will change, until then we just whine.
Oh, and another thing we need to do to help is don't spend money we don't have. Sound Anti-American, but that's the real cause of the dollar being worth less (or is that one work)!
03-14-2008, 12:26 PM
#58
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but you can keep believing that, even though the price of pump fuel started rising dramatically in the summer of '05 (before the weak dollar, before the price of a barrell of oil was anywhere close to $100, before ulsd, before katrina and rita), the 6 oil companies that control the u.s. market are being truthful and up front about how they are trying sooooo hard to open up new refineries, even though, throughout the '90's, they not only closed many refineries that they owned, but they actually bought up many just to close them down a short time later. sorry for the long post, but get a grip about 'conspiracy theory' = questioning the practices of the oil companies.
This isn't limited to the US. It's a worldwide issue. And the reasons why the prices are jacked are clear: a volatile, weak dollar makes oil a worhwhile play for futures investors/speculators.
03-14-2008, 01:52 PM
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But that does nothing to explain the global price of crude that everyone pays, including sate-run oil companies in other countries. Or the resulting record-high fuel prices in like China, where the "Big 6" oil companies have zero influence.
This isn't limited to the US. It's a worldwide issue. And the reasons why the prices are jacked are clear: a volatile, weak dollar makes oil a worhwhile play for futures investors/speculators.
This isn't limited to the US. It's a worldwide issue. And the reasons why the prices are jacked are clear: a volatile, weak dollar makes oil a worhwhile play for futures investors/speculators.
btw, pronstar- you make some good points, but keep your mind open, as sometimes there are many different reasons for a given situation, and they may come from several different directions.
03-14-2008, 02:30 PM
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and don't tell me about the environmentalists and 'tree huggers' not allowing new refineries to be built. the coal industry is far more hated, and has to jump through many more hoops than the oil industry, and they're putting up new coal fired plants with the required epa filters and scrubbers, and are making great profits, while supplying thousands of american families with cheap electricity. until new oil companies are allowed to be formed and compete with the big 6, and until we stop giving billions of $$$ in tax breaks to the existing companies, who then whine that us taxpayers should foot the bill if we want to build new refineries, don't tell me that it's just capitalism and free market economics, because it just isn't.
And tax breaks for companies that post record profits is just stupid. On top of their profits, we handing them taxpayer money? Makes no sense.