stock600

Went back out and turned every thing down far as i could and it took a little longer but would still get to hot before a complete pass. Im sure its the full cut delivery valves, as for the convertor they said they would take it back and try again to tighten it up. And yes i to have always had great luck w/ Art Carr's convertors in my gas race cars. Im sure the issue here is the conv. has to be smaller due to the Ultra Bells thickness and its tough to make a smaller conv. tight. And all the torq from the cummins is making it tough as well, usually in gas its the oppisite you never get as much as youd like and it due to you dont have as much torq. as you think, they rate convertors behind big blocks not small blocks - but boy a cummins will squeese every last bit out of one. They thought this one should be in the 13-15 range and its maybe 3500+ ya its a racer but that stall wont cut it, this engine/tranny combo needs to be hooked and pulling by 1800 in my opinion, 1500 might even be better, anyone else have an opinion or exper. with this??

dieselJon

I say keep the valves, get a better torque converter, and make up a set of twins Takes care of the EGT's and smoke. But then you will need studs and fire rings....and the list goes on....

Jon

stock600

Thanks for the advise Jon, pulled the glide today and ran it up to the tranny shop where they want to do some more things to it before i hit the track. Thier going to switch the 182's for 176's also, and the biggy- tighten up that stinking convertor. Boy cant wait to feel it lock up like it should before you could just keep on and on giving it fuel and it just ran right through it. Accual stall speed was near 4k i told them i wanted it in the 15-1800 range, right where the ol cummins will have a big flat torq. curve. Tryed some diff. DV's and they idle fine but miss really bad in the upper rpm's, they are 179's?? Ever heard of these, they came out of a F8000 12v. I think the 435's are needing more fuel than the 179's can supply? Either way they wont work- i need some 181 or 191's i suppose

stock600

Well bought a set of 181's from a member [Forrest Nearing] should see them in a day or two. I'll install them and see if they along with the new Snow inj. kit and nitrous [if needed] will keep it cool. I can always go back to the full cuts later if the egt's are fully taking care of. New findings on the convertor: they found the one i pulled to be gutted, i distroyed it and never even had it at the track! Thier trying to get a JW ultra bell that will hold GM's 13" convertor for the allision? The ub on it now will only allow a 11" and they cant get the stall low enough or strong enough also for that matter..... i sware this cummins will find every weak link in a build- Ryan

turbos10

If they can not build an 11" converter to handle that, then I would question them heavily.....That engine is not putting out enough torque at the 3800 RPM stall speed to hurt it if properly built. There are 1000+HP blown big blocks pushing 9 and 10" converters around and I suspect they out torque the almighty cummins in that RPM range. Maybe they tryed to do the low stall and that is why it died......

GM does have a 13" converter that was used in all the diesel applications with 4L80E...not sure about the allison. It does have a different hub design and will be lockup so will not work with the TH400. I would also think that a properly built 12" converter should hold up. Not sure how you are having it built, but I would have it done with 6 tabs spaced to eliminate the wavey ring if you are using one.

patdaly

I am with S10 on this one.

I run a 10" converter and JW Performance only missed my stall speed by 300 RPMs the first time out, and that is with right at 850 Lb/Ft.......

stock600

Great to hear but is that in a gas application or diesel? And i hear what yall are saying about the gassers holding up at 800, 1000 hp but still thier working on at best a 1 to 1 torq. multipyer. I too dont see why they cant get me going with a 11" convertor.

turbos10

Actually, a turbo or blown gasser is usually much over 1:1 torque/hp ratio. Now, they will not typically make 1000+ lb/ft at 2000RPM, but they will make 1000+ lb/ft. I think the converter guys had a goof up.

stock600

I hope im going to be nearer 2000 than 1000 though. Heck my daily driver makes over 1000 ft lbs. Remeber im not going to be driving this thing on the street, ya i hope if a race tune up, the water/meth., and nitrous ill be in the 1600+ ft. lbs. and its going to take a healthy glide and convertor. It's in thier hands now, they said they would keep me in trannys... sure hope they can get me something by this weekend. Thanks Guys

turbos10

I am just wondering if you will be able to load the engine hard enough to make that much torque. I assumed you were shooting for higher RPM power with the ported head and big turbo. I could be wrong, but I just dont think you will make that much torque in the RPM range the engine will be running. The engine VE falls off as RPM goes up(torque follows engine VE). With a peak VE on 6B's being 2K or less, you are not likely going to double that peak point and the engine is not going to stay in the 2K range.

On the bright side, you would NEVER get 2K lb/ft to the ground in a light truck with a weight ratio in the 30/70 range front to rear.

Maybe I am missing something......

stock600

No maybe im missing something. Its all speculation right now for me. I built it as a side weekend toy, and ended up selling by #1 race car last week kind of unexpectelly. Now im hoping this truck will fill a big void for me. It has big shoes to fill my little 240z would make it every sat. and run super. Ussually in the 6.3 to 6.7's on just a 350 i put together on alky. Very fun car, now that its gone i really hope this truck will give me a lot of fun in return. I Know its going to be slower than im used to but im just hoping its not to slow. Again my goal is just in the 6's, 80's would be great 90's would work too. And i hear ya on the VE and increased rpm, not sure how its going to do with the 4k r's and stock cam. A cam swap may be in order to allow better breathing someday, but not right a way. I hope this rather simple tune up will put me close to my goal thats all, wieght is key in drag racing. Mainly all i have to go on is how my street truck does and its 2x the wieght, well see.... ~Ryan~

turbos10

I understand what you are getting at. My turbo gasser is a 410cid small block in an S-10. I only had it on the track once, but it ran 7.2 with two blown head gaskets and timing retarded 15 degrees....it was a mess. Before it went south I just drove it locally and it would flat fly.

I think your project is cool as hell, but I just think there is going to be some sorting out to make it work. The problem is that with the tight converter the truck is going to move fast and the engine will push out of the existing RPM spot. The situation could exist that the engine outruns the turbo untill you hit high gear.

My truck is quick out of the hole, but gets scary after you hit 2nd gear and the turbo comes to full boost(only 11psi, but with 230cc heads it is ALOT of air). I can rev from 3800-6K RPM at full boost in a split second even with 33" tires and 3.50 gears. The point of my rambling is that I suspect to make yours work you will need 2ish range rear gears with the 2K converter. I would still be surprised if you can get that much torque to the ground.....but if you to HOLD ON!!!

Tough Old Goat

Stock600,
I've been following this thread and admiring this awesome project.
I got to thinking about the torque curve with the mods you've done and the limits of the torque converter but something at the back of my mind was niggling at me and this morning i remembered what it was.
The diesel makes its power all in the bottom end and most mods push that band upward,so if the converter locks at 2000 rpm what is left is maybe 1200-
1800 rpm to play with in usable Torque/Rpm.
Not good.
What I remembered was a trick where You use a torque tube in place of a converter.
The Tube is welded onto a flywheel and replaces the Powerglide input shaft
so it is direct power in.
You put a valve on the pumps inside the transmission and when its time to go
you just open the valve and hang on.
Some of My old circle track friends used this config in their old chevy's.
Launches like crazy!
It might work,either way keep going,Guys like me get to live vicariously from what you do and mostly the best of luck!
Rain.

stock600

Wow!........Wow! huh! Thats something ive never heard of thats for sure. I have another meeting in the morning with the tranny guy and were going to be calling some more convertor guros. Looks like TCI is out they qouted me 1616.29 for a 10" convertor! I reminded him this wasnt John Force with an unlimited budget. Its a unique bracket truck intended for short 1/8 mile track only. We'll be back in touch with Art Carr and others and see what we come up with, but to be honest it ant looking good. We tried a 13" in the UB today and you would have to grind to much aluminum from the BH to make it work. With a little work we could get a 12" in it and a 11" fits nice but tight with no mods. Prob. is all the convertors that the guys think it would take it build it would really require a 13" shell. Were going to try and talk them into building all they can into an 12" and we'll mod the case to fit. The whole project went fine and bam, now there a real hold up. Cant say i didnt expect something but....i thought the high EGT;s were going to be my Big issue, maybe ive solved that with the juice and water, im i can now just get a convertor to hold ill be in busniess. Thanks guys for all the responses and sugesstions, its really nice to see someone else thinks this is a cool project besides my self. Cant wait to get her to the track for the first time. Was really hoping for last or this comming weekend but it aint looking good. I will def. get a picture up before much longer of it, i wanted to get it off the lift, out of the shop for a good picture, maybe even at the track. Thanks again guys.

turbos10

I am just going to point out that the guys making big power run multi-disc clutches with lencos for a reason.....

I still think you can get a converter to hold it for a while....but only a while. Art Carr has a good warranty program and should stand behind it unless something has changed. When I used them I was very happy.