Prefered manual
 

Not a truck driver, barely even pretended as a kid[laugh]. I'm wondering if anyone has opinions on the order, from best to worst, of manual transmissions in big trucks. I see lots of 18 speed around local, but see 13, 10, and 9 speeds on e-bay, racing-junk, etc. I don't know much about any, synchro vs. not and much more. Please enlighten me[coffee]

None of those transmissions are synchronized. If you have a feel for machinery you will not have much trouble learning to operate any of them.

They are all basically huge 5 speed transmissions with an auxiliary gearbox or gearboxes. You run through the normal 5 speed shift pattern, flip a switch on the shifter, then run through the pattern (or part of it) again. Some are shifted differently but you get the idea.

The more "speeds" the less RPM change per shift. 18 speeds are usually found in highway tractors. 9 and 10 speeds are found in lighter local use tractors and in dump trucks, 13's are kind of the all-purpose tractor trans.

"Best" depends on what you are using it for, each one is the best choice for a particular application.

Good point. I'm looking into upgrading from a SRW 3500 megacab to a heavy truck. It will be used to possibly carry a Jeep LJ (think long wheelbase TJ), and pull a 5th wheel grossing around 12-15000 lb. Unless pricing comes down, it would seem unlikely that an auto-shift is in my future:(. I have ran a non-synchro trans in an old Willys, and an older Ford, so that part doesn't scare me to much. I'm just looking for input on "friendliness" of the different boxes, as this is supposed to be a fun truck.

Well, this is just my opinion so take it for what its worth. [laugh][laugh] The 18 speed will give you the greatest gear coverage so that's a plus. My brother used to drive one and I filled in a couple times for him. It was pretty nice. It eliminated the drop between low/high range on a 13 speed. Nine speed also since it is a 13 without the splitter. I didn't like the 9 speeds. I'm currently driving a 10 speed which works pretty well. The newer ones (since I don't know when, maybe '95) are pretty good. They have a low enough low gear and reverse which the older ones did not. Some guys like 13 speeds real well but I like the 10 speed better since it doesn't have an air shift splitter and the longer drop between ranges. My personal favorite, which I haven't seen for awhile, is a 15 speed. It's a 10 speed with a couple lower gears. Since I work for someone else, I drive what they give me. [duhhh][duhhh][laugh][laugh]

Well, if you define "friendly" as being effortless to drive in heavy traffic, none of them are friendly. You will soon understand why professional truck drivers drive the way that they do. Once you learn to drive them, they are easy to drive (no clutching needed once you get moving). It's actually a lot of fun once you get the hang of it, but you learn to hate traffic lights and stop signs because then you have to start again at the bottom. Which you will want to do since it's YOUR clutch. [laugh]

The biggest thing to remember when driving any of these transmissions is that you can't hurry them. Don't be in a rush, take your time and be smooth.

It sounds to me like a 9 or 10 speed would suit you fine. You are running so light that you would always want to be skipping gears on an 18 speed anyway. Skipping gears is a more difficult skill than running through the gears in order.

yes none of them are "friendly" in traffic. but though not hard to drive like was said once you get the hang of it. wannadiesel said don't rush shifts, I suggest its impossible to rush a shift. because the tranny will not shift until the shafts match speeds. we all know the sound. [laugh]

I'd suggest a 13 as well for you. if you're looking at a class 7/8 truck. if you look into a class 5/6 I like the 10s


these are what make the noise............no syncronizers on any gears.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r...91021-1550.jpg

So Luke, are all those gear teeth for torque capacity, or is that one of those 100 speed RoadRanger? :) I figured an 18 would probably mean more shifting(never even thought about skip-shifting), and that it was probably WAY overkill for the weight I'm looking at. I made that guesstimate based on the torque curve for these big diesels being like a two-stroke dirt bike, just at a lot lower RPM.

that is a pic of a regular 18 eaton. the twin countershafts are for torque capacity yes. the mack triple shaft box is a Beast among monsters. but thats not what you need. They're all just a regular 5 speed forward box. using different range and splitter combinations in the housing piggybacked on the back of the main case you make the gear combinations. 13 15 18. the red splitter switch is a 13 speed. a blue splitter is a 15. grey switch is an 18.

13 would be a good choice but a 10 would do you good too. with no range box on the back of the main case on a 10, it makes the tranny considerably lighter. which you want to keep in mind "light weight" for better fuel economy too.

when I bobtail a tractor to roadtest it. depending on the horsepower rating. I usually make top gear (regardless if its a 13 or 18) in 4 shifts and 1 split on top gear. if its lower HP or an old bird, maybe 5 shifts and 1 split. then they usually runs 1400rpm-ish at 110km/h of course depending on rear ratios and tire height. but generally close to 1400-1500 at highway speed.

super 10 sucks all the others are pretty easy. 18 is more pullin heavy weight

[laugh] Oh yes, we know it all too well!

Perhaps it's better to say - Don't hurry because the transmission will only frustrate you further. :)

What was it that guy from Car & Driver said about road testing the Harley Lonestar? Something like "the transmission hates you and wants you to fail?" [laugh] It's funny because it's true. [laugh]

Thats pure GOLD right there. [guitar]

Good info here guys. I'm guessing these are not lightweight trannys, so if a 10 speed is lots lighter, I may not exclude it as fast :). I thought it was a flat ground, low torque, low HP special. I don't think that I need to go as far as 18 though, although that much Jake would be sweeeet.[guitar][guitar][guitar]

A set of sticks is what I broke in on.
Spicer 6 X 4 is my combo of choice.


Attachment 70672

Left arm through the steering wheel while shifting the primary. [laugh]

I drove for several years before I drove a single stick myself. An outfit I worked part time for used to put a new hire with me once in a while. First thing I would ask them if they ever drove two sticks. Without fail not a clue. At the company picnic a few years ago the old man had a new tractor and the old LT Mack he had brought over. It had a tri-plex and I ask my brother how many guys besides us do you think could drive this rig? We figured about 4 out of maybe 50-60. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] :o

In my opinion, a 10 speed or 9 speed are the simplest and easiest to drive. Less to keep straight in your head as to where you are and less to tear up. While I prefer a 13 speed for myself, some "drivers" will pre-select splitting gears (moving the splitter while still keeping their foot in it then later letting it shift by letting off the throttle) and damage the back box. The 6 speeds tend to be geared too high in 1st and especially reverse to suit me. Once you get past five gears in the "low" side, the pattern is too easy to skip two gears accidentally by missing the shift gate.

Heres a Chevy 30?, Detroit 453T with a twin stick 4X2.

Guys, he's looking for an easy trans to haul a load so light the tractor will hardly know its there. He doesn't need 18, or 13. He could easily haul what he wants with a 9. All those gears in an 18 are to help pull heavy loads which he wont be needing.
I'd suggest a standard 10, or if you want, a super 10 but there's more to go wrong. My last one was a 10 speed auto shift. For local work it cant be beat, just clutch to get started and then let the trans do all the work. Hell for a friendly easy tranny thats the one to get, or a full automatic. The only problem is repair costs when something breaks...

And I can't steer with my belly[redface] I've been trying to follow those (and other you-tube) videos as the sticks are flying. It would be nice to have them call out the gear position as the shift is made. In the Detroit video, I think I followed up to 3rd under( I think that's the name) and then the title cut in for his favourite shift(both sticks forward). Definitely looks like fun, but not what I would want in a relaxation ride.

Hotshotter is right, a simple 9 or 10 speed Road Ranger is all he needs. Anything extra would just complicate the situation and give him more to tear up.

I totally agree but in the original post he asked about all the others. [laugh] [laugh]

I am partial to a 18 speed as that is all I have ever driven for any period of time.
No matter what situation your in the 18 has the proper gear to be in, The down side to this is it also has more gears to not be in.
When pulling with the 18speed you dont have to split all your gears so you can drive it like a 9 speed, With 7high being your last gear for highway.
The advantage to the 18 is putting the power to the ground with in the narrow ranges your engine has. Where I drive this is very usefull.

Now the 10 speed is very simple to shift as is the 9 speed. Some times I found a person can be in to high or to low of a gear and not have the choice to shift to get into a better power range. A good friend of mine who hauls b trains of cement wishes he had a 18 speed every day due to stop and go traffic and the ability to have more options for speed and range of rpm.

Can you tell I am biased. Yupp. I love the 18 if I had the money, time and the space my 05 Dodge would have one in it.

If you dont want to split gears you dont have to, but if you need to you can in all ranges and gears unlike the other trannys whom don't split or only spilt the top half.

True, but I didn't know about the aux. tranny setup. I was thinking about boxes like a LDT 3,4,5,6 speed setup, all in a similar box, but different beasts. I remember the first GM 5 speed that I tore the synchros out of by shifting without the clutch, ala GM 465 4 speed. Similar box, totally different internals[duhhh]. Now that I know how some of these units transfer power, I am leaning towards fewer gear positions, with the bigger steps in power. The 18 speed is incredibly common around these parts, but I haven't followed the power flow/shifting steps yet

They went out because you were shifting without the clutch. No glory in that, IMHO. Shifting without the clutch, that is.

The 18 speed just has a splitter for each gear position. It's a 9 speed that splits each gear. Been about 15 year since I drove one.:o:o

Yeah, I know why the synchros went so fast. Problem was, this was early in the change over to New Venture transmissions, and the interweb was a baby;). I'm looking for help in selecting a transmission, as much as "don't do this....." tips, as I don't have any experience with a $10,000 transmission that probably won't be suburban driveway serviceable[yuk]. If I end up gutting it because I didn't know something simple, like to use the clutch for a NV4500, you will be able to hear my tears when the wind blows through your neighborhood.

so I'm kind of confused now............ are you a seasoned class 1 driver like you eluded to in the summer. or are you. "not a truck driver, barely even pretended as a kid" like you say now?


which is it? since you made such a big deal about it to me in the summer.

I second the basic 10 speed. Its the best all around trans out there. That or a basic spicer 6 speed. I think the 10 speed eatons are some tough and simple transmissions. Thats why its seen in so many fleet trucks.

I would also want one with as tall of an overdrive as available. I like something in the .69 to .65 range but a 10 speed Eaton wont get you that so the rear end ratio needs to be matched appropriately.

Sounds like a 10 speed is what you should be looking for. JMHO.

10 speed ovedrdrive
 

If you are looking for higher road speed, there is a 10 overdrive. I can't remember the designation, think it is something like RTO--10. It is simply a 10 speed roadranger with 9th and 10th gears turned arround. You have a big jump between 3rd and 4th gears and also between 7th and 8th. It can be confusing in shifting because the two top gears in the high and low sides swap positions in shifting. But you end up with a very high overdive. Not my favorite transmission by a long shot. But a good gear man can build one out of a standart 10 speed roadranger.

you certainly dont need 9 or 10 speeds to get a light load of a camper/jeep moving. in reality, a good one ton truck will do that fine, and would be no sweat for an f550-like truck. a "small" international or freightliner with a 5 or 6 spd would be more than sufficient for his needs. you'd also be surprised how many automatic "big" trucks are out there. my last service truck was an f550 w/ a 6 spd, and it would laugh at his camper as a load. its 3 times the truck than an f350; big brakes, big frame, heavy rims/tires, big suspension, yet still fairly "driver-friendly", and could be driven w/out the clutch or w/it like normal.

my first big truck was a '70s mack r model single axle road tractor, 237 w/a 5 spd. it pulled alot of heavy farm machinery, millions of round bales, etc. it could handle 10 times what a 1-ton pickup could, and only needed 5 gears to do it. i have since moved up to an 18spd, but i do 175k lbs loads, so i need them

a 9 or 10 spd is way overkill for what the OP wants to do, especially since he admits to not really having any experience. i'd stay on the look out for an automatic. i can buy them all day for cheap around here

But wouldn't a 550 be a mile long to carry a Jeep on deck? I looked at a 5500 Ram last time I was in the ***********, but something on the numbers didn't jibe. I don't remember what it was, exactly, but it looked a little light somewhere. It may have even been WB, I was just killing time while getting service done, so I wasn't looking to hard.
I have had a class 1 license w/air since 1988(as a condition of employment), but my gear experience ends at an ancient gas powered tandem grain truck. It was a 4 or 5 speed with a 2 speed rear, called "Old and Slow":) I think it had syncro'd gears other than 1st, but it's been years.

It was a synchronized main, but I've spent a bit of time on an old IHC with a 5x4 in it. Engine is a complete dog 392 gasser, that Dad is afraid will eventually puke on us. As for HD transmissions, and hurrying up, it depends on the engine. Most engines are kinda slow on the decel, owing to lack of backpressure, so you can't hurry them up. A Detroit 6V92 is pretty quick on the decel. My ol' man's first semi tractor was an IH S2575 with a 6V92TA. Previous owner told him to shift it like he was mad at it. New tractor is a Pete with a Cat 3176E and a RR. Both were 9 speeds (1st is a Low Hole gear). Definitely a more refined experience with the Pete.

Sounds like the size of truck you'll be getting is properly classified as Medium Duty and would have a 7 or 8 speed at best in it. If you can, an Allison 2000 series would be good for an automatic. I drove a tri-axle late 60s IHC Fleetstar (IIRC) farm dump with a DT466 hooked to an Allison AT-540. Pretty darn good setup in a classic rig. The truck was rebuilt and the transmission I'm sure was not original equipment.

Just thought I'd throw two things that struck me the most when we bought a class 8 truck for our ranch operation. I am driving a 10 speed in our 95 IHC 9700 cabover. It is a progrssive shift, so you start at a lower RPM, and each subsequent shift requires a higher RPM and road speed. Conversely, coming down requires the same attention. Bit of a learning curve there. Also, after driving trucks with more gears, it's obvious more gears keeps you in your power range more often.