Russ Roth

That's probably right. The FD's fought requiring a CDL pretty hard, especially volunteer outfits. I had a CDL so it would not have made any difference to me but only a very small handful of the other drivers had one. Well, the Union would probably have fought for pay for the position so I guess it would have made a difference.

pevaguy

In over 25 years of owning a truck repair business, I have never seen a dayton hub with an out-board mounted drum. It would be impossible to mount the drum out-board on a Dayton hub. The drum is bolted to the hub. Even if you could find a Budd hub that the drums you have would bolt up to, it would have to be set up as in-board mounted due to the depth of the drum not being deep enough to cover the shoes.
If you will pull one of the hubs off, you will see what I am saying.
What type of suspension does the truck have? If it is something like Rayco 4 spring suspension, You could possibly swap axles with a set with budds without too much trouble if you are determined to have budd wheels. But you would still have Daytons on the steer axle.
I don't know where you are, but most any good truck parts dealer can get you rims, wedges, studs, etc.. As far as mounting, with a little practice you can mount them running very true and straight. If you will check you will find that dayton hub systems are as strong or stronger than Budd hub systems.

totalloser

I probably interpreted it wrong when I looked at it. I might pull it anyway just to have a look.

As to an axle swap, I'm nearly certain that the Board wouldn't go for it. They *might* have gone for a wheel swap. Probably just need to get some new rims and harangue the shop to get the wheels mounted straight enough to not look like a bad joke to other motorists!

CDL... Well when you or a loved one is smashed in a car on the side of some out of the way back road, take solice in the possibility that there may well be an EMT sitting at the station waiting for a driver. I don't think it's quite so cut and dry.

chaikwa

For the life of me, I just don't understand the resistance by the fire service to obtain the proper licensure to operate the vehicles in their fleet. It isn't like someone just arbitrarily gets out of their car and hops into a 10 or 15 ton truck one day and decides to drive it. (at least I hope it isn't happening) Most fire personnel have fairly involved training before they're allowed to get behind the wheel, so what's the big deal about testing out and getting the right license? Fear of failing? Laziness? Is the apparatus in so bad of a condition that it wouldn't be allowed to be used to take the test in? Or are the operators really that bad and couldn't pass the test if they tried? I have yet to receive an intelligent answer to this question despite having been asking it for almost 28 years, so maybe you'll be the first!

All apparatus operators in my department are CDL licensed and have been since the late 80's, even tho the state doesn't require it. I did their training so I know it's not that hard. And most are amazed at how little effort or money it really takes, not to mention that the department reimburses them for all expenses IF they ultimately pass. Now the town and department is somewhat protected in the event of an accident involving the apparatus and so is the operator. Not that either party would be absolved of responsibility, but it would be a heck of a lot easier to defend someone in court if they had the license as opposed to someone who did not. And since we started licensing them, the accident rate has dropped to nothing. Literally. No accidents since 1987.

totalloser

If you can't understand, I don't know if I can help you with that.

To get our FFs licensed, we (actually I) have to take a rig out of service, drive it 100 miles over windy mountain roads, and take two FF's out of service (big issue for a small agency) as well. During this time neither the licensed driver, nor the applicant is paid for anything, both will be missing work, and we will only have ONE type 3 in service in our sprawling mountainous district. The test will be 45 days out if and when you can arrange one, during which time you have to call just before 8am day after day since that is the ONLY time you will be able to get your name on the list with the DMV due to backlogs and furloughs.

It's not all cake for everyone. But compared to some other underfunded VOLUNTEER FD's we actually have it pretty easy. I *personally* agree that anyone who is going to drive should have a license. I also don't think that 40 year old rigs should be in service, but until buckets of money fall out of the sky along with skilled licensed drivers, we will just have to make do with what we have.

chaikwa

If you haven't already, you should consider the Assistance to Firefighters and SAFER grants from the Feds. While apparatus isn't the main focus of the program, if you're running 30 or 40 year old trucks you'd be a prime candidate to apply for something new. Or maybe put together a driver training program that would cover its own costs. Or both. SAFER is for personnel. PM me if I can help you in this regard.

Russ Roth

chaikwa,

I can answer that question in a couple words in regards to the Portland, OR Fire Bureau. Flexibility and cost. If we had been required to have CDL's the Union would have, without doubt, wanted more pay for the position. And regarding flexibility the Department did not want to have to hire for a driver. Instead, they could just hire any FF or use what we called travelers for filling positions. And yes, there were times guys were driving that I personally did not feel should have been. I worked Call shifts many times over the years where I drove because the officer did not have someone from his own shift that he had confidence in. There were even a handful of times I was detailed to another Engine house to work so there was someone to drive. Actually traded places with someone already on duty. That happened many years ago when I was first hired ('70's) and not later.

I was a commercial truck driver before I got hired and there were a handful of others also in the Department. For the most part, though, most any of the new hires never even sat in anything larger than a pickup. We did have some training but I never felt it was what it should have been. I always made it known that I felt it should have been a TESTED position just like a Paramedic or an Officer. The Department didn't even want to hear about it and the Union would always allow that issue to be one of the first thrown out in negotiations since that was not a priority with them either. In later years there was better training and the Department had a specialty position of Driver/Trainer.

I did work with a number of guys over the years to improve their skills and others did also that had the experience. Some guys could never get it though. We were doing some in house training with the tillered rig I drove @ Terminal 4 where there was acres of room. One guy was so bad I could have done better (and did at times) without him back there. He was one that drove very rarely and only under protest since he was not at all comfortable with it.

Even on my own shift I came in one morning just a couple shifts before I retired and my officer tells me I am driving the Engine instead of my usual position on the Truck. Say what????? I'd been driving the Truck for about 15 years and had only driven it (never pumped) once in the 4 or 5 years since we got it. Kevin says well, you're the best one for the job today so that's what I did. We both ended up working the next day and guess what???? We're both on the Engine and I'm driving it AGAIN! Wasn't so bad. We got a couple calls and managed to get things done right.

chaikwa

There's a big problem most guys don't realize; If an accident happens, regardless of what the law allows an non-licensed person to do with a piece of apparatus, the city, the administration of the department and the union will all throw the unfortunate driver under the bus, (so to speak). At least with a license in your pocket, it's one less thing they can go after you for in court. And as far as being paid more... I have mixed feelings about that. One one hand I can see the justification because it's one more thing to keep up with. On the other hand, the department should pay for the costs of acquiring and maintaining the license, and it essentially gives the person holding that license another 'trade' they could use elsewhere if they so desire. I see it as a win-win situation.

I DO agree with you that not everyone is cut out for it and some just don't belong behind the wheel. Formal training and testing would, (should), weed those out tho.

Thanks for your reply!

pevaguy

The original poster was wanting to know about changing from Dayton hubs to Budd hubs. How did this thread drift off subject to where it is now? There are a lot of qualified drivers without license and a lot of licensed drivers that shouldn't be operating a wheelbarrow.

pind

yes, but at least now those drivers will understand the difference between budds and daytons, and the wheels/hubs will understand what the guy trying to operate the truck is going through.

Russ Roth

I'm totally in agreement with that. I believe it is a mistake to not have the drivers CDL qualified.

That just seems to happen sometimes and I am probably one of the guilty ones on this one. I agree with your last sentence also.

chaikwa

It was me, I admit it. And you're right!

totalloser

I'm gonna blame the OP, personally.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding SAFER. I'll relay to the appropriate officer. I think some of the FEMA grants have been and are being currently persued. All I do is try and arrange to keep things rolling and get interns licensed... well other than making noise and flashing lights!

The idea of conversion sorta sounds like a lost cause. If it were pretty simple, the board might go for it, but otherwise, probably not. I think I'll just try and chase down some new Dayton style rims for that rig.

Thanks for all the input.

astevenson

Call some of your local truck tire shops. Alot of them offer reconditiond wheels or can recondition your wheels. You should be able to do it that way alot cheaper. We have alot of trucks and trailers with dayton wheels and if they are installed correctly they will have minimal if any woble. Infact I beleive DOT only alows a 1/4" of woble in daytons. I could be wrong it's been along time since I've looked it up.