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ABDTR #5 Alberta Chapter #5 Discussion

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:04 PM   #61  
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Originally Posted by 6.7L MegaCab View Post
Simple. Start doing oil analysis. Let that be an indication as to how well the oil is performing (it will also tell you how the engine is doing). Why throw out something that isn't bad? If the oil is still good, then there is no risk to the engine.

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Lets start by agreeing that no matter what I say or what you say our opinions will remain the same and I am simply voicing my opinion on why throw away something that is still good.
Simple, I'm too poor to afford to be cheap. An engine rebuild, truck out of commission, rental vehicle, etc could cost 6/10k while the oil change cost me $100. Plus the filter which the OP also changes anyway.
I don't like those odds, 1/100.
Even 50/50 is not a number I'd flirt with or I'd buy meats from the back of a pickup hoping its not week old roadkill.
The automotive industry spends billions in research, would I trust a Mercedes Benz engineer or keep my fingers xssd that the lab technician that did the oil analysis didn't mixed/tainted the samples, the computers didn't malfunction or the results aren't accurate?
I think of my engines as a human body that needs food, fluids and oxigen to function and the conditions it needs for best performance. I could survive with polluted air while eating road kill and drinking my filtered urine, but when clean resources are available why take a chance that I'd get sick?
Met many one mangicake that would drink evian but run their cars on regular and Walmart specials oil changes and its to me incomprehensible.
Not trying to debate, it's again, simple math. 4-5 oil analysis, time it takes to do it and drop samples off, $80-100 in costs, just get the oil, 15-20 minutes and be done with it and don't have any cold sweats when the engine sounds off tune.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:23 PM   #62  
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It takes me all of 20 seconds to get a sample and the lab is on my way to work, it costs less than $20 for the test including the sample kit. Why replace something that is still good? Most european cars run synthetics now and only do oil changes once a year, they don't buy into the 5000km oil change interval that detroit has brainwashed North America into believing is the holy grail to keep the service writers in a job at the dealership.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:13 AM   #63  
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I Know of trucking fleets who some people will call lazy about maintenance and they send trucks all over north America and if they get the trucks back home prior to 90,000 kms for an oil change they think they're doing great, I'm not saying I have the guts to run my KW that long but for me that's also 4 years of driving too. I will agree that 5K oil changes are a waste, all that being said I am a fan and user of amsoil and will continue to be changing oil at 20,000 in my dodges!
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:58 AM   #64  
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If you take the emotion out of the discussion, running your synthetic engine oil for 60, 000 km with regular filter changes and regular oil analysis is perfectly logical....

But... emotion, tradition, history, old school thinking (which is where I'm still at) is tough to overcome.


I was doing better until Santech Diesel Performance showed that Duramax with the trashed engine on http://abdiesels.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5523

The engine was running Amsoil oil with an Amsoil secondary oil bypass filter. Santech mentioned that the owner was doing 35, 000km engine oil changes and the engine was trashed due to oil sludge, dirt etc...
He then went on to say that he does and recommends 5000km regular dino oil/filter changes like the rest of us old school guys...

There is no perfect answer here. For me, I'm still running really old school dino CI-4+ engine oil with about 8000 km between oil changes but towing a10k lb 5th wheel all summer.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:20 PM   #65  
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One size does not fit all & you do have to use your brain a bit too.

We don't know the whole history on that LBZ story nor do we have any idea how he maintained the vehicle prior to running extended oil changes nor was there ever any indication that he did any oil analysis or if he even topped up the oil.

Idling the truck all day long is not good (even if it is common practice in some parts of the country) and it sounds like this was ignored & the only consideration given for changing the oil was the odometer. Somehow I get the feeling that this guy never did 5K oil changes prior to changing. Someone also pointed out in the posting that this was a known issue with that particular engine - and somehow I get the feeling that this means that then these failures happened with more than just one brand of oil.
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:51 PM   #66  
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One advantage that i do believe i have is that i have a 75 km mainly highway commute one way,not a lot of stop and go until i hit Calgary.My biggest concern is fuel dilution, that's the first thing i look at on every report.My soot levels are good so the filter is doing it's job.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #67  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magiriano View Post
Lets start by agreeing that no matter what I say or what you say our opinions will remain the same and I am simply voicing my opinion on why throw away something that is still good.
Simple, I'm too poor to afford to be cheap. An engine rebuild, truck out of commission, rental vehicle, etc could cost 6/10k while the oil change cost me $100. Plus the filter which the OP also changes anyway.
I don't like those odds, 1/100.
Even 50/50 is not a number I'd flirt with or I'd buy meats from the back of a pickup hoping its not week old roadkill.
The automotive industry spends billions in research, would I trust a Mercedes Benz engineer or keep my fingers xssd that the lab technician that did the oil analysis didn't mixed/tainted the samples, the computers didn't malfunction or the results aren't accurate?
I think of my engines as a human body that needs food, fluids and oxigen to function and the conditions it needs for best performance. I could survive with polluted air while eating road kill and drinking my filtered urine, but when clean resources are available why take a chance that I'd get sick?
Met many one mangicake that would drink evian but run their cars on regular and Walmart specials oil changes and its to me incomprehensible.
Not trying to debate, it's again, simple math. 4-5 oil analysis, time it takes to do it and drop samples off, $80-100 in costs, just get the oil, 15-20 minutes and be done with it and don't have any cold sweats when the engine sounds off tune.
You mentioned you already take your oil to 25K using AMSOIL. That is the standard AMSOIL recommended oil change interval so I will take a shot at guessing you use 25K because that is what AMSOIL warrants most of the oil to (or one year, which ever comes first). Did you know that there was a 1990 Mack truck that went 409,000 miles without an oil change using AMSOIL? The engine was tore down by a Mack dealer and a certified rater examined the parts. He said there was only slight to moderate wear and that the parts could be reused. There is enough studies and independent tests that support going well beyond 25K miles in a diesel. If AMSOIL adjusted their recommended drain interval for light to medium duty diesels to say 60K, would you increase it as well since it would be supported by AMSOIL?

As for manufacturer's spending tons of money on research. I would trust a Mercedes Engineer since, as already mentioned, in Europe frequent oil changes are no longer the norm. Engines built today are built under greater tolerances than yesterdays gas or diesel engines. But even the engines of yesterday, here in North America, the motivation behind the frequent oil changes was to fill the pockets of the oil industry as well as dealers and quick lubes.

I definitely understand not being able to afford a rebuild. I have 5 mouths to feed not including my own. I care about my engine as much as you care about yours. During that 25K miles, do you by any chance perform oil analysis? I performed an analysis a little over 4K miles after the oil was changed to establish a baseline. I will take another one @ 60K (on the odometer) or 10,750 miles since the last sample, then about every 7500 miles after that (stay inline with tire rotations). May be more frequent based on lab results - or change the oil.

There is no better way to tell how your engine is really doing than by having an oil analysis done. Labs are prone to make mistakes as is the case on my 08 Mega Hemi (no longer own). I had a sample taken around 4K miles and it came back condemned - a far shot from the 25K miles/year I was suppose to get out of it. I contacted AMSOIL's tech dept Manager. After a lengthy discussion, he said my results indicate an emissions systems failure. Because my truck was brand new, he said that didn't make since and had the lab reanalyze the sample. The second results were okay, but I learned my engine didn't like going too long for oil changes.

Now for diesels, my motivation behind going as long as I can is to prove how well AMSOIL performs in a Cummins (when I ran the 5W-40, I went just under 18K miles before I changed over to the 15W-40 CI-4+ - oil analysis indicated the oil was still practically brand new). Another motivation is more environmental related. The less oil changes, the less waste oil.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthDiesel View Post
If you take the emotion out of the discussion, running your synthetic engine oil for 60, 000 km with regular filter changes and regular oil analysis is perfectly logical....

But... emotion, tradition, history, old school thinking (which is where I'm still at) is tough to overcome.


I was doing better until Santech Diesel Performance showed that Duramax with the trashed engine on http://abdiesels.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5523

The engine was running Amsoil oil with an Amsoil secondary oil bypass filter. Santech mentioned that the owner was doing 35, 000km engine oil changes and the engine was trashed due to oil sludge, dirt etc...
He then went on to say that he does and recommends 5000km regular dino oil/filter changes like the rest of us old school guys...

There is no perfect answer here. For me, I'm still running really old school dino CI-4+ engine oil with about 8000 km between oil changes but towing a10k lb 5th wheel all summer.
As already mentioned, there is a lot we don't know about this particular instance. Dirt in the oil = failed air filter. Oil sludge could be caused by a blown headgasket, even under or over filled - this is what I know for gas engines, not entirely certain on diesels, but I'm guessing it is probably the same.

I recommend biting the bullet and let the lab tell you how well your engine and oil is doing. That will help with the old school way of doing business - even with dino oil. Although I will say, I have compared my results with someone else running Valvoline, at similar miles on the engine, my results with about 18K miles on the oil were far better than his results at 4K - 7K miles.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:13 PM   #68  
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Just how good is synthetic oil?

I know how well it works for me, I have been using it since the mid 1980's long before it was readily available, also keep in mind that to run the oil through the winter below 0 F we must use 5W40 oil. BUT did you know that jet aircraft also use synthetic oil, how often do you think the oil is changed in a modern passenger jet aircraft that spends most of it's life in the air? It's NEVER changed unless it becomes contaminated somehow or the oil is drained for a component change or the engine is rebuilt then the old oil is not reused. That's how good synthetic oil is.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:05 PM   #69  
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I took my oil sample in today...I was informed...they want oil from the oil pan,not from the oil filter..

What they told me...There will be way more containments in the oil filter than in the oil pan....

Don't know...I will go by what they tell me..

My report will be oil from the filter...
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:04 PM   #70  
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I wonder how a report will work for a gasser----,sorry a little off topic but my 2012(8 months in service) Isuzu 3 ton tilt-cab has a oil change interval of 12500Km on synthetic oil(motor is a GMC 6.0,de-rated to 295HP/aluminum heads with double overdrive auto). We may just switch over to Amsoil for a gas vehicle(5W30) and try to run a bit longer as warranty ends in a month or so at 60,000KM.Manual says to run synthetic(WITH DEXOS ADDITIVE ) and i do all the oil changes for the company with regards to my truck.My last company vehicle(2008 GM 6.0 1-ton cube,325HP) has 350,000KM running MOBIL(10K intervals) ,original engine/tranny,motor has never been opened up ---"YET" and is still running strong on the downtown route----plenty of stop and go/idle/hard driving with my job. DW.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:35 AM   #71  
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There shouldn't be any issues running a synthetic with extended drain intervals on a gasser. I'm running amsoil 5w-30 in my wife's matrix. It's been in about 7 months now and still looks as clean as the day it went in. I run it in my quad as well.it gets changed twice a year though because of water contamination due to condensation from short runs in the winter.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:36 PM   #72  
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There shouldn't be any issues running a synthetic with extended drain intervals on a gasser. I'm running amsoil 5w-30 in my wife's matrix. It's been in about 7 months now and still looks as clean as the day it went in. I run it in my quad as well.it gets changed twice a year though because of water contamination due to condensation from short runs in the winter.
Thanks----i"m due for a oil change this week.UPDATE----done today ,probable going to run till 15000KM intervals, then change it as i do a fair bit of idling as well.Amsoil exceeds the DEXOS-GF5 new oil requirement for GM 2012 new vehicles.Mobil 1 is another but it costs are about $16.00 a litre.We will see how this goes for a bit.CHEERS DW
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Old 06-12-2013, 02:00 PM   #73  
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Here is mine...High copper...could be from the addictives from the Co-op oil..Going to do a oil change...For some reason viscosity is not up....
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:29 AM   #74  
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Hi Dave,

There should very little signs of copper in the AME 15W-40 you are using. I would be concerned about the high level of copper though, especially with the amount of miles on your truck since it could be a sign that the main/rod bearings or maybe your oil cooler (if you have one) is wearing out.

When I was using the DEO 5W-40 I sampled the oil with 17,954 miles on the it (45K on the engine) and the copper was only 90 ppm. I then switched over to the AME 15W-40 and took a sample with just over 4200 miles on the oil and the copper was sitting at 13 ppm. I am waiting until I hit 60K on the odometer (about another 2 months) before I sample again to see where everything is sitting at.

You mentioned a co-op oil, what were you using before?
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #75  
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Hi Dave,

There should very little signs of copper in the AME 15W-40 you are using. I would be concerned about the high level of copper though, especially with the amount of miles on your truck since it could be a sign that the main/rod bearings or maybe your oil cooler (if you have one) is wearing out.

When I was using the DEO 5W-40 I sampled the oil with 17,954 miles on the it (45K on the engine) and the copper was only 90 ppm. I then switched over to the AME 15W-40 and took a sample with just over 4200 miles on the oil and the copper was sitting at 13 ppm. I am waiting until I hit 60K on the odometer (about another 2 months) before I sample again to see where everything is sitting at.

You mentioned a co-op oil, what were you using before?
I can't even remember what I was using before co-op oil...I think it was pennzoil..

I really don't know about this high copper level...I talked to the company owner,and he wants me to drop the oil...replace and re-test in 10K

He figures...with the copper so high...my truck would of let loose already..He thinks the oil I was using before...may had a high copper additive..I don't know..

I don't have any weird bottom end knocks
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