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ABDTR #5 Alberta Chapter #5 Discussion

Good or bad luck today??

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Old 04-07-2009, 09:45 AM
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No worries on the offer, it took about 10 days ish for delivery,, very good service.

Tate, what I did was told Manfred to get a gasket and match it up to that. So I dont know what numbers he came up with... seems though that on your head that everything was good at the 120 if I recall correctly.

Mike, no we are o-ringing just the head, and just doing O rings.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:21 AM
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I was told that fire rings don't last long and are more a race or puller thing, but there is only one way to know for sure is by doing. What procedure for intial start-up and re-torquing the head? I've been told a few different methods, each different from what I've done in the past.
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tate View Post
So that spec that I was given is clamping on the outside of the fire ring. I thought the o-rings were to clamp down on top of the firering?
I thought the oring was supposed to sit right in the middle of the gasket firering too.
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:03 AM
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Thats what I have manfred doing for me
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Old 04-07-2009, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bigd450 View Post
If you dont mind. The guys at Glovers here in RD just seem look at you funny if you dont drive a semi.
Don't bother with them... I got the same dance.. Go to Frieghtliner in the North end Edgar and they will hunt down a part for you in no time..
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Old 04-07-2009, 12:23 PM
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http://haisleymachine.com/product_in...oducts_id=2375

I'm not a fire ring expert, but I was told that it sit inside the cylinder, on top, in the hole so to speak of the head gasket. Its directly exposed to heat and fire, so its a short duration piece. Everyone does fire rings differenty, so before buying or machine call Haisley.

My two heads, the oring pushed directly against the head gasket, more in the middle of the steel reforced part of the head gasket. The higher protusion will require more head torque prior to beating on it as the gasket is more difficult to seal-up as you have to compress that orings into position more so. I have to see Tater head once he done. We can put it beside mine from PDR.

I would also run the 625 ARP's, as my old arp's torqued to 135 ft*lbs couldn't seal-up my engine at 80+psi of boost. Of course I could have did a few more re-torques and babing prior to beating on it, but soon or later you want to see what ya got.

A slightly thicker gasket might also help for high boost trucks.

My stock head and arp's are holding up fine at 35psi.
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tate View Post
Whats the diameter on the fire ring? Kev was saying that the 120mm diameter was going to interfere with adjacent rings.
That's what I have read a few times that they use 120mm. I just gave my headgasket a quick measurement I didn't have calipers so its not exact but the OD is 115mm and ID is 105mm of the fire ring. But I am sure Manfred will get it right.

Like Mike was saying I believe 12 thou protrusion is gonna take alot of retorque to get a good seal but after you do it will be good for alot of abuse. 625's would be better cause you can really crank on them but I might as try my regular arp's first as the 625 are another $1000. Manfred also said the depth is easy to change and will leave that up to each customer what depth they want.
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:19 PM
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Here is some food for thought,, the back studs are a bugger to tighten down even to 135,, let alone to 160 or 170... I know of a few guys that are running 100 psi + with just the regular arp's I really think that with 3 retorques that I will be fine
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Old 04-07-2009, 01:20 PM
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also, I think that if you have less than 12 thousand you are not going to get the sealing that you are looking for,,,,, has to be slightly thicker than the gasket, or it isnt going to do anything
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
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Kev, I posted up a thread on Comp D about this issue. The o-ring is to clamp on top of fire ring in the gasket. On my old block, the old head gasket residue is still visible, 110mm diameter would bite about center of the fire ring. 120mm is the bore spacing on these engines, so the rings over lapping makes sense. I called Manfred, told him that its just to compress in the center of the fire ring, which is what the plan is on your head. They are just doing their cuts on the practice head, so ours should be up soon.

.012" is a fair amount of protrusion. I remember Doug (jetpilot) was reccomending .008-.009" protrusion.

I'll be running ARP 2000 studs. No need for the $1100 studs on a daily driver. Guys are running 800+ hp on stock head bolts, I think the cheap ARP's will be fine.
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:16 PM
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Yeah that is what I told Manfred to do on mine too.... and i agree with the head stud statement... I am quite confident that with the proper maintenance (proper retorques) that they will hold just fine... heck on a dmax they only get 75 psi on a torque
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:00 PM
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Well, this is good timing. I took my dad into the airport this morning. Just as I got off the highway, I noticed that the temp gauge wasn't up in the usual range, and the mechanical gauge was reading the same. It would stay at 170F, no higher. Drove him the rest of the way, still no change in temp. After I dropped him off, I decided to snoop around. Noticed that I am about 4 litres low on oil. Popped the rad cap off, but being dark and only having a little flash light, couldn't see much.

So I went out a couple hours ago, checked the oil again after it sat for 8 hours, still way low. Look in the overflow bottle, **** near empty. And its pretty gross looking. Pull it into the driveway, pull off the overflow and dump it out, was about half oil and half coolant. Checked the rad, looked ok, but it was just run. I've been letting it sit and its looking darker at the top. So I think thats where my oil has disappeared to. Seems wierd that my antifreeze is low though. Anyhow, I'm thinking I popped the head gasket. I guess 50 psi boost is a bit much for stock bolts/gasket. I hope they have the heads done relatively soon (like by the end of the week) so I can start fixing the truck. I guess I better go put the radio back in the dually so I can bomb around in that for the next little while. I guess I won't be installing the silver bullet tomorrow like I had hoped.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:41 PM
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That is pretty good timing to bad it wasn't another week though. It could also be the oil cooler to couldn't it be? I guess they usually have different symptoms though. But when I blew my gasket I got my cooler tested first because the truck was running fine black smoke, full boost, but it turned out to still be the gasket. It also cost a few buck to test it so I don't know if it was really worth it or not. But I am sure you can tell the diffrence.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:47 PM
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The cooler has crossed my mind, but I don't think its the case. I'd expect more oil contamination if it were the cooler, since the coolant level is much higher than the oil level, it should feed into the oil system. I'd be interested in doing a compression check on it, but if my head is done, its going on regardless, so I think I will just wait.

Who and how did they test the oil cooler?
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Old 04-07-2009, 10:06 PM
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I got it tested at Hi-Tech Radiator in Red Deer. I believe they had to weld spigots on it and air it up to 75psi in water. I tried at home but could only get about 10psi and kept blowing the plug out. But if your pulling 50psi on stock studs its probably safe to say it's the gasket. Also if it was the cooler wouldnt the oil pressure be lower than normal? I also got them to get the oil out of the antifreeze. I tried with Lestoil for a couple hours to clean everything but it was still contaminated. What ever degrease they used it worked awesome it was crystal clean after they cleaned it.
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