4th Gen High Performance and Accessories 2010 and Up Talk about Dodge/Cummins aftermarket products for fourth generation trucks here. Can include high-performance mods, or general accessories.

Deleting in this day and age

Old 07-12-2013, 10:11 AM
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Deleting in this day and age

I'm looking to buy a 2011 3500 this weekend. I've going through posts and looking at tuners. Am I missing something or do the tuners no longer offer dpf delete tuning? If so, if I do all this deleting, do I have to live lights and codes constantly?
Don't have to worry about all this crap on my 98.5
Sorry if I missed this answer somewhere on here already
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Old 07-12-2013, 01:55 PM
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Carpenter74:

Welcome to the DTR!

I am sure other DTR Members will post some replies to you on this issue, but the tuners like "H&S" offered for the 4th Gens can no longer be sold by dealers due to the EPA's crackdown on them. Do a search on "H&S" Tuners and you will have ALOT reading on it. In a nutshell, "H&S" was HEAVILY fined by the EPA along with "Edge Products" and most diesel shops can no longer sell them. Sometimes you can find them "on-line" but if you install one on a new truck with the emissions garbage, you have pretty much VOIDED your factory warranty if a Dodge Dealer sees you have installed it on your truck!
And don't let anyone here tell you that the install of a tuner "can't be seen" by the Dodge DRB Scanners, because they CAN!!

Here in eastern N.C. the Dodge Dealerships here are voiding factory warranties for owners that have installed aftermarket air boxes!!
It just happened to a good friend of mine.

So,.....BE CAREFUL what you do to that truck if you decide to buy it Sir.

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Old 07-12-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Carpenter74 View Post
I'm looking to buy a 2011 3500 this weekend. I've going through posts and looking at tuners. Am I missing something or do the tuners no longer offer dpf delete tuning? If so, if I do all this deleting, do I have to live lights and codes constantly?
Don't have to worry about all this crap on my 98.5
Sorry if I missed this answer somewhere on here already
Others will chime in, but besides old-stock on re-seller's shelves there's the RACE ME (not sure if anyone has tried it) which looks to be an off-shore Smarty JR. with the ME software.

But yes, John P. is right- don't delete expecting your powertrain warranty to remain in-tact. These trucks run great without being deleted, but if you want better mpgs, fewer oil changes, cleaner oil, & longer engine life then delete away (or wait until your warranty is up and get the best of both worlds).
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:01 PM
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The warranty is already up on the truck. 128,000mi.

My 98.5 still runs great and gets 21-22 highway. My daughter will be driving soon so figured its a good time for me to upgrade and get her started in the old truck. Really don't want to give up 8 mpg just get a newer work truck.

I've just been reading the posts about new ones and the poor mileage, oil changes, soot build up, etc that is a problem with them. If i get it, i'll drive it awhile and be my own judge. I was just curious if the tuners were really off the market and what options i was left with to play with the truck a little.

Thanks for the quick replies guys!
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:01 PM
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I bought my truck new in 2010 and immediately went to my dealer's service manager and talked frankly about deleting. It's a dealer by dealer thing. He basically said that they can report anything to Chrysler if they want to be he wouldn't as long as I wasn't trying to play him. He said he wouldn't be looking to blacklist my truck.

So I've brought it in recalls and they looked at my straight pipe, mini maxx and such, didn't bat and eye and did the recall work and sent me on my way. I'm at about 1 1/2 years left on the powertrain warranty so not worried.

I sold the Mini Maxx and have been running deleted with SIMS for the last 3 months. I just ordered a RaceME for $570 from Austria. Ordered it late Wednesday night, it shipped Thursday and should be here Monday according to UPS.

I like trying stuff for fun.

Bottom line -- Drivetrain warranty is at risk if you have a problem while deleting.

-Guzzler
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Old 07-12-2013, 04:03 PM
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And btw here in IN we have no emissions testing yet and haven't heard of it getting close
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:04 AM
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Carpenter:

In light of Guzzlers reply to you let me add an incident I witnessed about two
(2) months ago at our local Dodge Dealer.

While Guzzler is right that if a Service Manager or Service Writer says they will
"look the other way" on deletes or engine modifications to a 6.7 Dodge CTD CR they have no control over Chrysler sending District Area Service Reps to dealers UNANNOUNCED to check service being done to these trucks. The day I was at the dealership this is exactly what happened and a Dodge Technician was doing service on a 2011 Dodge CTD CR 4th Gen Truck which had been deleted, had an aftermarket airbox etc. The Chrysler Rep did a "walk through", saw this and inquired to the Service Manager what was being done on that truck. Turned out they were doing warranty work on the turbo which had failed. The Service Writer was fired, the warranty on the customers truck was VOIDED and the dealership may face fines from this.

So,....while I am sure the practice of "looking the other way" goes on, I tell my buddies;......"If you modify ANY new Dodge CTD CR 6.7 4th Gen you better be prepared to pay for ANY repairs including a blown turbo and any engine failure because if Chrysler sees it you are on your own."

These emission rules from the EPA are getting more serious every year and the "H&S" debacle should make that clear to anyone who is considering buying a new Dodge CTD CR 6.7! You clearly don't have to worry about that on your current truck.
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Old 07-13-2013, 11:29 PM
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When ever I see stuff about warranties being revoked, those that run deleted (and have a warranty) should read up on a federal law called the Magnuson-Moss Act. A manufacturer can not revoke a warranty until they prove a part failed by the addition of aftermarket parts or by abuse. A district rep can't just waltz in and do a blanket denial without proof. We all know these turbos aren't the greatest and seemed to fail at higher rates than on non-deleted trucks. If a manufacturer is breaking the law because most people do not know about this law, then they need to be sued. The problem with this is that most of us accepted being our own warranty station, in my opinion, because they don't trust a dealer to work on their rig, especially those dealers that don't have a diesel mechanic, but will still accept work because it is money in their pocket.

John, please know I'm not doubting what you saw happen, I just think we need to stop letting dealers and the manufacturer get away with thinking they can do whatever they want....without showing proof (proof isn't some unqualified guy looking at something and making a command decision). I have scoured my basic warranty and my extended warranty multiple times and it doesn't mention anything about not being able to make modifications without risking your warranty.

To the OP, as mentioned, there is always a risk with anything we do with our trucks.

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Old 07-14-2013, 03:43 PM
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Well I guess it really doesn't matter this time. the truck turned out to be not as advertised. Ran Good and looked good. But a TON of smaller things not working on it. I got a really bad vibe from the dealer also. So the search continues. Lol
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 6.7L MegaCab View Post
A district rep can't just waltz in and do a blanket denial without proof. We all know these turbos aren't the greatest and seemed to fail at higher rates than on non-deleted trucks.
That's the great irony in this debate. A deleted truck, with stock power settings, is a far more reliable truck and is less likely to need the warranty.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:51 PM
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Making a blanket statement that your warranty is void when you delete is incorrect. I deleted my truck since day one and I still have warranty on my truck.

My local dealer has given me the warranty voiding rant for stuff like not letting dodge do my truck servicing. Other warranty rants include running large tires, towing trailers and so on. I've had friends with 4th ten truck (bone stock and nearly brand new) blow head gaskets, to be refused warranty as the vehicle was being abused.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 6.7L MegaCab View Post
When ever I see stuff about warranties being revoked, those that run deleted (and have a warranty) should read up on a federal law called the Magnuson-Moss Act. A manufacturer can not revoke a warranty until they prove a part failed by the addition of aftermarket parts or by abuse. A district rep can't just waltz in and do a blanket denial without proof. We all know these turbos aren't the greatest and seemed to fail at higher rates than on non-deleted trucks. If a manufacturer is breaking the law because most people do not know about this law, then they need to be sued. The problem with this is that most of us accepted being our own warranty station, in my opinion, because they don't trust a dealer to work on their rig, especially those dealers that don't have a diesel mechanic, but will still accept work because it is money in their pocket.

John, please know I'm not doubting what you saw happen, I just think we need to stop letting dealers and the manufacturer get away with thinking they can do whatever they want....without showing proof (proof isn't some unqualified guy looking at something and making a command decision). I have scoured my basic warranty and my extended warranty multiple times and it doesn't mention anything about not being able to make modifications without risking your warranty.

To the OP, as mentioned, there is always a risk with anything we do with our trucks.

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The MM act is designed to allow you to use a XXXX brand filter and not a MOPAR filter and not void your warranty unless they can prove the XXXX filter caused the failure. It's also designed to allow you to get factory recommended service anywhere if you keep your receipts. It's part of a comprehensive warranty law overhaul intended to protect consumers in many ways, including clearly stating the warranty, not having limited warranties or conditional warranties in certain situations, etc...

But it's not designed to allow you to raise performance beyond factory specifications and then break your vehicle and then get repairs under warranty. It's also not designed to allow you to remove the emissions system which is in and of itself, against federal law.

So people who tout the MM act, go for it. But just remember what it's purpose is. To allow the aftermarket to provide the same goods and services the manufacturer does to ensure a free market and fair prices to protect consumers. Read the actual statute and you'll see what I mean.

It's not designed to allow people to raise performance beyond the factory specification OR violate federal emissions laws. So as easy as it seems to hide behind the MM act and how the aftermarket performance market wants everyone to believe it applies, it has limited powers to protect us. SEMA and others would have you believe different because they want to sell stuff and give buyers a warm-fuzzy feeling.

-Guzzler
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:34 PM
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Problem is do you want to get an attorney involved if they void your warranty? Reality is you can probably just pay to fix it if a problem comes up much cheaper. These are pretty simple trucks.

Fyi they do not void stuff that isn't affected by modifications and chrysler was really nice with me when I made a complaint to them.

Just expect to take some risks if you want to play. I did on my old truck it was modified and I didn't have any problems.


Same thing with emissions equipment and the law. Do you think an officer pulling you over is going to waste his time looking under your truck and becoming a engineer? Probably not, they have bigger things to worry about. But when it comes time for a state inspection sticker you may run into an issue.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rednecktastic View Post
Problem is do you want to get an attorney involved if they void your warranty? Reality is you can probably just pay to fix it if a problem comes up much cheaper. These are pretty simple trucks.

Fyi they do not void stuff that isn't affected by modifications and chrysler was really nice with me when I made a complaint to them.

Just expect to take some risks if you want to play. I did on my old truck it was modified and I didn't have any problems.


Same thing with emissions equipment and the law. Do you think an officer pulling you over is going to waste his time looking under your truck and becoming a engineer? Probably not, they have bigger things to worry about. But when it comes time for a state inspection sticker you may run into an issue.
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Rednecktastic:

Sir,.....no offense to you, but some of your statements are just not right!

First off,.....the 4th Gen Trucks are NOT "simple trucks." The emissions systems on them are darn complicated and for every function in that system there is a computer or module that controls something. The replacement parts are EXPENSIVE! To replace that water cooled stock turbo you are easily looking at $3,000.00-$4,000.00! Retail cost on new injectors are anywhere from $800.00-$1,000.00 a piece! How do I know that? Because a good friend of mine just got done doing his and that is about what they cost.
Sure you can get "reman" units, but on a new truck who would want to do that?

As far as your statement with emissions, YES,...there are states where the police (mainly DOT or state police) WILL look at the systems on your truck if you are stopped. The States of California and New York are good examples of that and California has "opacity meters" on their freeway entrance ramps to check the smoke coming from diesel trucks, ESPECIALLY the newer
2007-2014 Dodge CTD CR "Clean Diesel" Trucks.

Finally, you are also "off base" on a part "not related to emissions" causing a warranty problem. My friend was going to try and have his truck "warrantied"
after his 6.7 injectors FAILED at 50,000 miles. But, luckily because one of our friends is a Dodge Diesel Tech there ans knew that the truck had an aftermarket air filter, exhaust modifications etc. he told my buddy NOT to
bring the truck in to the dealer for fear of completely losing his warranty!
So,....we installed the injectors for him. Are there dealers that "look the other way?" As I have said before, yes I know there are. But if they get caught by Chrysler they are in serious trouble Sir.
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:19 AM
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No offense taken, I think we agree on many points and I appreciate another perspective from mine as I'm here researching another new truck purchase.
We just have different opinions on the subject of simplicity. I'm looking at a set of rebuilt injectors and used turbo like it isn't the end of the world if I break my new truck. That is if I took the chance in deleting it and having warranty issues.


I agree a cop can climb up under your truck and look for emissions equipment missing, I do not think this is necessarily a bad thing. Although for the most part there are bigger fish to fry. At least around here I've never seen any issues with it, deleted trucks are not that common.


Anyways the reason I posted here was to say I had engine work done with a programmer on my old truck. It was just a water pump but I didn't have a problem and I actually had the nerve to complain to chrysler that they didn't flush and fill the system because I had to fill the truck on the side of the road late at night in the middle of no where with drinking water since it was leaking so bad. I do not know why people over react to loosing their warranty.


No offence meant but your friend should have changed the intake to stock on his truck and took it to another dealer. That situation sounds unacceptable and the injector shouldn't go out because of an air intake and exhaust system.
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