$1000 A/C Repair Not Covered by Ext Warranty
06-16-2007, 02:25 PM
#16
If you have the warranty gold, I think that is what it is called, your covered. It covers something like 8000 parts on the vehicle. About the only thing you should be paying for are tires, wipers, clutch (std) and brake pads/rotors/drums. I believe the next step down in the warranty chain still covers the entire A/C system. Time for a new dealer.
06-16-2007, 02:37 PM
#17
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Shawn:
To answer your questions...
No cooling air out of any other vents. The doors appear to be good, but I will doublecheck this morning when I head out in a bit.
The grille area is fairly clean... there are some bugs, but it's not plastered. I will hose it down good tomorrow just to be safe. I may build a screen cover for it like I had on my '96 and '01.
My extended warranty was $1600... it's the full wrap to 100k on everything, allegedly.
Thanks!
Rob
To answer your questions...
No cooling air out of any other vents. The doors appear to be good, but I will doublecheck this morning when I head out in a bit.
The grille area is fairly clean... there are some bugs, but it's not plastered. I will hose it down good tomorrow just to be safe. I may build a screen cover for it like I had on my '96 and '01.
My extended warranty was $1600... it's the full wrap to 100k on everything, allegedly.
Thanks!
Rob
06-16-2007, 02:48 PM
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Find another dealer. At the minimum they should have least put dye in the system when they charged it with freon and then checked it with a black light to find the leak. I had the same problem with my 1998 2500. It was the evaporator and everything was covered under my extended less the $50.00 deductible. The dealer (Thomas Dodge, Pt.Jeff. NY) that did the repair was not the selling dealer. Smithhaven Dodge, St. James is where I bought my truck but I refuse to step foot into their service department ever again. Let just say that Smithhaven Dodge is run by a bunch of incompetents that have no clue what they are doing or what customer service means. -Glen
06-16-2007, 07:15 PM
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Nope.........no expansion valve,no dryer do your homework than come back
You say do your homework and then come back...his homework has been done not too bad. Maybe you should take your comments and keep them to yourself. The system doesn't have an expansion valve but it does have a fixed orifice tube which does the same basic job as an expansion valve. It essentially regulates the amount of liquid refrigerant going into the evaporator. Yes a minor error but the description of the system is still relatively accurate...and you major mistake Bob4x4 is that the system DOES have a receiver dryer! All automotive systems have a receiver dryer of some sort. Dodge happens to call it an accumulator but it is a terminology thing, it still does the same job as any other receiver dryer. It still holds a reserve of liquid refrigerant as well as contains a desiccant pack of sorts to remove any moisture from the system and to an extent filter out the refrigerant.
I absolutely hate it when people start insulting other people that are simply trying to help. If you want to insult someone and say do your homework first then come back, maybe you should do you own research first so you don't look bad as your info isn't correct either. The point is that the description of the system from CatDiesel_762 is essentially correct except that there is one minor terminology error.
06-16-2007, 07:54 PM
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"Mr. Dealer, here is a copy of the extended warranty that I purchased at your salespersons recommendation to cover these types of failures. I specifically recall I was told that the A/C system was covered. Can you please read through this and show me where it says that this is not covered by the $1600 extended warranty that I purchased."
MAKE them show you that it is not covered!
MAKE them show you that it is not covered!
06-16-2007, 08:19 PM
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I remember reading an article that talked about moving the sensor probe from factory location to another area so that it cycled the unit on/off better. I think the unit was not shutting off and freezing up. That would make the unit get hot until it thawed back out and then would work again. I think moving the sendor shut it off before it would freeze up. I tried to search around but could not find the article. There are way to many forums to try and find the article.
06-16-2007, 10:10 PM
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[QUOTE=RobG;1555575]
"The A/C would be sporatic. Basically, it'd be cold, then it'd get warm for no reason. If you did one or more of the following, it might get cold again, but it was at best a 25-30% chance it'd make it cold again:
- Turn the a/c button off and back on
- Turn the blower **** off and back on
- Turn the temp **** towards warm and then back to cold
"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob,
Those symtoms can occur when the gap between the AC clutch plate to hub gap on the front of the AC is too wide causing the clutch not too engage. Doing one of the actions you described de-energizes the clutch and then reversing that action re-engerzizes and the plate finally engages.
When the problem occurs again you can see whether the AC clutch is engaged from the top looking down at the compressor. If it is not engaged the clutch plate in front of the hub and belt pulley will not be turning.
The AC clutch plate is shimmed to set the air gap between it and the armature in the hub. If the gap is too wide the clutch engagement doesn't always work. The fix is to remove one of the shims and reduce the gap.
The clutch plate is easy to remove from the under the front of the truck. Takes about 5 minutes with a 13mm 3/8 socket and 2 flat blade screwdivers. The hub is on a splined shaft with a skip. It slips right off with a screwdriver blade on each side after you remove the 13mm nut.
You can then remove the shim(s) between the clutch hub and shaft collar to reduce the gap.
You'll need to line up the skip in the splined shaft to re-install the plate.
"The A/C would be sporatic. Basically, it'd be cold, then it'd get warm for no reason. If you did one or more of the following, it might get cold again, but it was at best a 25-30% chance it'd make it cold again:
- Turn the a/c button off and back on
- Turn the blower **** off and back on
- Turn the temp **** towards warm and then back to cold
"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob,
Those symtoms can occur when the gap between the AC clutch plate to hub gap on the front of the AC is too wide causing the clutch not too engage. Doing one of the actions you described de-energizes the clutch and then reversing that action re-engerzizes and the plate finally engages.
When the problem occurs again you can see whether the AC clutch is engaged from the top looking down at the compressor. If it is not engaged the clutch plate in front of the hub and belt pulley will not be turning.
The AC clutch plate is shimmed to set the air gap between it and the armature in the hub. If the gap is too wide the clutch engagement doesn't always work. The fix is to remove one of the shims and reduce the gap.
The clutch plate is easy to remove from the under the front of the truck. Takes about 5 minutes with a 13mm 3/8 socket and 2 flat blade screwdivers. The hub is on a splined shaft with a skip. It slips right off with a screwdriver blade on each side after you remove the 13mm nut.
You can then remove the shim(s) between the clutch hub and shaft collar to reduce the gap.
You'll need to line up the skip in the splined shaft to re-install the plate.
06-16-2007, 10:23 PM
#25
Why do you have to insult someone who is obviously trying to help by explaining the AC system so that the original poster has an idea of how it works to maybe help in diagnosing the system.
You say do your homework and then come back...his homework has been done not too bad. Maybe you should take your comments and keep them to yourself. The system doesn't have an expansion valve but it does have a fixed orifice tube which does the same basic job as an expansion valve. It essentially regulates the amount of liquid refrigerant going into the evaporator. Yes a minor error but the description of the system is still relatively accurate...and you major mistake Bob4x4 is that the system DOES have a receiver dryer! All automotive systems have a receiver dryer of some sort. Dodge happens to call it an accumulator but it is a terminology thing, it still does the same job as any other receiver dryer. It still holds a reserve of liquid refrigerant as well as contains a desiccant pack of sorts to remove any moisture from the system and to an extent filter out the refrigerant.
I absolutely hate it when people start insulting other people that are simply trying to help. If you want to insult someone and say do your homework first then come back, maybe you should do you own research first so you don't look bad as your info isn't correct either. The point is that the description of the system from CatDiesel_762 is essentially correct except that there is one minor terminology error.
You say do your homework and then come back...his homework has been done not too bad. Maybe you should take your comments and keep them to yourself. The system doesn't have an expansion valve but it does have a fixed orifice tube which does the same basic job as an expansion valve. It essentially regulates the amount of liquid refrigerant going into the evaporator. Yes a minor error but the description of the system is still relatively accurate...and you major mistake Bob4x4 is that the system DOES have a receiver dryer! All automotive systems have a receiver dryer of some sort. Dodge happens to call it an accumulator but it is a terminology thing, it still does the same job as any other receiver dryer. It still holds a reserve of liquid refrigerant as well as contains a desiccant pack of sorts to remove any moisture from the system and to an extent filter out the refrigerant.
I absolutely hate it when people start insulting other people that are simply trying to help. If you want to insult someone and say do your homework first then come back, maybe you should do you own research first so you don't look bad as your info isn't correct either. The point is that the description of the system from CatDiesel_762 is essentially correct except that there is one minor terminology error.
06-17-2007, 01:07 AM
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I remember reading an article that talked about moving the sensor probe from factory location to another area so that it cycled the unit on/off better. I think the unit was not shutting off and freezing up. That would make the unit get hot until it thawed back out and then would work again. I think moving the sendor shut it off before it would freeze up. I tried to search around but could not find the article. There are way to many forums to try and find the article.
this is what was wrong with mine when I was having the same symptoms. they put in a new fin temp sensor and moved it to another location and I have had no problems since. BTW it DID require removal of the whole dash so pray for it to be covered under the extended warranty! or the dealer is willing to cut an access door.
06-17-2007, 02:16 AM
#27
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Actually the fixed oriface valve is the expansion valve, read the Dodge Service Manual and it will desribe it in detail as a metering valve. On most Automotive and Heavy Truck A/c System that I know of, either have one or two fixed orifaces or metering valves in the high pressure line leading to the evaporator(s), which can also be called the expansion valve. This is what separates the High pressure side from the low pressure side on the A/c system.
As for using the wording of reciever dryer, I figure I would try to keep my long post short and to the point since most people do not know what is a Accumulator. If you look in the Service manual under Section 24 "Heating and Air Conditioning," you will find that our trucks do have a Accumulator on the out-put side of the evaporator coil. Which can be called the Reciever Dryer for those of us who were trained/educated to use that term to prevent confusion when discussing Hydrualic Accumulators.
If you actually followed my post you would get a general desription of how the A/c system works. Yes, some systems have the Accumualtor on the low side while others have it on the high side. Yes, some expansion valves are called fixed orifaces or metering valves instead of "expansion valves."
Finally, I want to give thanks to Crx for standing behind my wrong termianlogy description. J-bob, I did do my homework and have reviewed my copy of the Dodge Service manual regarding the various componet locations. I have also completed a ASE course on Recovery and Recycling of Refrigerant which completes the EPA code 609 requirements to purchase controled refrigerants that contain CFC. Such as R-12, which is no longer being made in the U.S.A.
As for the question I had for RobG, he answered what I needed to know. Such as his answer was that his purchased Warranty was an Extended Waranty and not the Transfer of Original Warranty to a second owner. So, the dealership should be servicing his truck's A/c system minus a $100 deductible with no questions asked. So long as he is under his trucks mileage or date of intial service (usually when the first owner took delivery of the truck) for the extended warranty. From RobG first post he sounded like he was the second owner of this truck. Then he mentioned his condensor had some wear, but not enough to be really concerned with and was planning on a future screen or gaurd for it. As for the blend door problem, he was not aware of any other ducts having air, but would double check on his next drive with the A/c on.
He also said in the first post that the dealership recharge the system, but did not say how much. This has me concerned that the system has a leak, or low from the factory and never has work right from the start. They also told him that it cold be the Evap Sensor ("Thermatic Control Switch/Sensor" as I like to call it), when he took it back after the intial repair failed to solve the problem. In which I am willing to agree to. However, the recent refill may have over charge the system and is now hiding the original problem. He also spoke of turning the system off by the control ***** and switches and then the system would work. This is telling me a bad TCS, relay/fuse, or maybe a defective compressor.
Nowe my opinion is this, the system could have a bad Thermatic Control Switch or another faulty relay. Sorry, Rob. I know that is not what you want to hear. However, you could now have a overcharge system or a faulty compressor as mention by Jyates, but I would have to see the pressure guages and watch the compressor and A/c lines to be sure which one it is.
Sorry Rob, I did not mean to Hi-Jack your tread. Let us know how everything turns out. I promise not to write a book.
Shawn
As for using the wording of reciever dryer, I figure I would try to keep my long post short and to the point since most people do not know what is a Accumulator. If you look in the Service manual under Section 24 "Heating and Air Conditioning," you will find that our trucks do have a Accumulator on the out-put side of the evaporator coil. Which can be called the Reciever Dryer for those of us who were trained/educated to use that term to prevent confusion when discussing Hydrualic Accumulators.
If you actually followed my post you would get a general desription of how the A/c system works. Yes, some systems have the Accumualtor on the low side while others have it on the high side. Yes, some expansion valves are called fixed orifaces or metering valves instead of "expansion valves."
Finally, I want to give thanks to Crx for standing behind my wrong termianlogy description. J-bob, I did do my homework and have reviewed my copy of the Dodge Service manual regarding the various componet locations. I have also completed a ASE course on Recovery and Recycling of Refrigerant which completes the EPA code 609 requirements to purchase controled refrigerants that contain CFC. Such as R-12, which is no longer being made in the U.S.A.
As for the question I had for RobG, he answered what I needed to know. Such as his answer was that his purchased Warranty was an Extended Waranty and not the Transfer of Original Warranty to a second owner. So, the dealership should be servicing his truck's A/c system minus a $100 deductible with no questions asked. So long as he is under his trucks mileage or date of intial service (usually when the first owner took delivery of the truck) for the extended warranty. From RobG first post he sounded like he was the second owner of this truck. Then he mentioned his condensor had some wear, but not enough to be really concerned with and was planning on a future screen or gaurd for it. As for the blend door problem, he was not aware of any other ducts having air, but would double check on his next drive with the A/c on.
He also said in the first post that the dealership recharge the system, but did not say how much. This has me concerned that the system has a leak, or low from the factory and never has work right from the start. They also told him that it cold be the Evap Sensor ("Thermatic Control Switch/Sensor" as I like to call it), when he took it back after the intial repair failed to solve the problem. In which I am willing to agree to. However, the recent refill may have over charge the system and is now hiding the original problem. He also spoke of turning the system off by the control ***** and switches and then the system would work. This is telling me a bad TCS, relay/fuse, or maybe a defective compressor.
Nowe my opinion is this, the system could have a bad Thermatic Control Switch or another faulty relay. Sorry, Rob. I know that is not what you want to hear. However, you could now have a overcharge system or a faulty compressor as mention by Jyates, but I would have to see the pressure guages and watch the compressor and A/c lines to be sure which one it is.
Sorry Rob, I did not mean to Hi-Jack your tread. Let us know how everything turns out. I promise not to write a book.
Shawn
Last edited by CatDiesel_762; 06-17-2007 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Too much Confusion.
06-19-2007, 05:15 PM
#28
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Okay, I have some test results...
I got a guage set from Autozone, and followed the instructions. Both guages fluctuated quite a bit, but the low side hovered in the 28-50 psi range, and the high side varied between 200 and 300 psi. They moved more or less in unison.
What's interesting is that the A/C was working while this was going on... i.e. blowing cold air. Near the point when I was ready to stop, it gave out and went to warm air. At that point, the Low side maxxed out and went past 100. So I shut off the A/C and the motor and disconnected everything.
Something I just thought of... going back to when I got the truck back in April, whenever the compressor would engage, like right after I'd start the truck, then turn on the A/C before backing out of the driveway, it would make a "crunch" noise when turning on, sorta like when you try to grab a gear too quickly and don't get the clutch down all the way. Not quite that loud or dramatic, but it's the best way I can describe it.
I haven't gone out to see if I can see that plate engagement thing that was described earlier... maybe tonight or tomorrow I'll have time to do that.
Rob
I got a guage set from Autozone, and followed the instructions. Both guages fluctuated quite a bit, but the low side hovered in the 28-50 psi range, and the high side varied between 200 and 300 psi. They moved more or less in unison.
What's interesting is that the A/C was working while this was going on... i.e. blowing cold air. Near the point when I was ready to stop, it gave out and went to warm air. At that point, the Low side maxxed out and went past 100. So I shut off the A/C and the motor and disconnected everything.
Something I just thought of... going back to when I got the truck back in April, whenever the compressor would engage, like right after I'd start the truck, then turn on the A/C before backing out of the driveway, it would make a "crunch" noise when turning on, sorta like when you try to grab a gear too quickly and don't get the clutch down all the way. Not quite that loud or dramatic, but it's the best way I can describe it.
I haven't gone out to see if I can see that plate engagement thing that was described earlier... maybe tonight or tomorrow I'll have time to do that.
Rob
06-19-2007, 05:28 PM
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Follow-up... being curious, I went out side and checked the compressor.
As expected, whenever the dash air gets warm, the compressor clutch isn't turning. What's odd is that when it IS turning, the dash air isn't always cold... it might be cold, or it might be just cool. It seems to cycle a lot too, at least at idle. Too bad I don't have a way to watch the thing while driving.
Is there a way to see if it SHOULD be turning when it isn't? Or should I do the re-shim bit?
Rob
As expected, whenever the dash air gets warm, the compressor clutch isn't turning. What's odd is that when it IS turning, the dash air isn't always cold... it might be cold, or it might be just cool. It seems to cycle a lot too, at least at idle. Too bad I don't have a way to watch the thing while driving.
Is there a way to see if it SHOULD be turning when it isn't? Or should I do the re-shim bit?
Rob
06-19-2007, 05:54 PM
#30
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Leave the clutch gap alone. If it is engaging, it is fine. Never had a problem there. You need to get a scanner and look at the evap temp sensor. It sounds like the evap is freezing up and the sensor is just not doing it's job and shutting off the compressor to keep it from getting damaged as a result of the evap freezing up. Unfortunately the original diagnosis sounds spot on. There could be other problems like an air flow problem, not getting enough air across the evaporator to keep it from freezing, an overcharged system( don't think so by the pressures you were seeing), poor airflow across the condensor or a clogged orifice tube, but the most reasonable is still the sensor. The compressor is working and sounds like everything else is too except the evap temp sensor, which should kick the compressor off BEFORE it freezes. Without a scanner to read the values of the sensor it is a guess.
