Water Injection
08-12-2009, 08:15 AM
#166
Registered User
Interesting report (another forum) from user of tap water (tows heavy for a living) and it's effects on oil analysis.....
I put a Snow stage 3 MPG/Max h20/meth setup on my 2007 LBZ truck at about 124,000 miles and I'm now up to 187,000. Shortly after that I did an oil analysis and was shocked by what I saw. High Aluminum, Silicon, Sodium, Potasium and Magnesium. The lab thought I had a coolant leak. But I hadnt noticed any, and with the amount of miles I put on the truck I thought for sure I would have noticed it by then.
After phone calls & emails to Snow, the oil analysis lab, Labonte, and others I decided to change the water source and retest.
The testing went down like this: For each test the engine oil and filter was changed, oil was ran aprox 5000 miles and a sample was pulled.
1st test -
I was running any water from any source. Water from home (softened tap water), water from truck stop spickets like those you see at the camper/rv fillup lanes at Flying J (only the safe for drinking ones) and rest area water spickets.
This test resulted in the high levels mentioned above.
2nd test -
Switched to only distilled mineral free water.
In this test all the high levels were back down into acceptable areas.
Talked to Snow after this test and they asked if I would switch back to tap water and test again.
3rd test -
Switched back to tap water.
What do you know, all the mineral levels mentiond above went right back up.
I thought I was done testing. But getting ready to leave out on a trip I thought I had 5 gallons of straight meth but it was empty. I had just changed the oil that day so it was fresh clean oil, and there was a jug of Peak Washer Fluid and an oil sample container on the shelf looking at me. So I ran only Peak brand for about 5000 miles and pulled another sample.
4th test -
Peak WWS resulted in high mineral levels (again) and high cooper and lead. So again I thought I was done testing, but now I needed to see if the copper and lead were from the wws or an engine problem. So..........
5th test -
Ran only distilled water with the meth for about 5000 miles and pulled a sample. the mineral levels and the copper and lead went down.
I'm not going to run anything but distilled water with the meth. Thought I'd share for anyone else interested.
I put a Snow stage 3 MPG/Max h20/meth setup on my 2007 LBZ truck at about 124,000 miles and I'm now up to 187,000. Shortly after that I did an oil analysis and was shocked by what I saw. High Aluminum, Silicon, Sodium, Potasium and Magnesium. The lab thought I had a coolant leak. But I hadnt noticed any, and with the amount of miles I put on the truck I thought for sure I would have noticed it by then.
After phone calls & emails to Snow, the oil analysis lab, Labonte, and others I decided to change the water source and retest.
The testing went down like this: For each test the engine oil and filter was changed, oil was ran aprox 5000 miles and a sample was pulled.
1st test -
I was running any water from any source. Water from home (softened tap water), water from truck stop spickets like those you see at the camper/rv fillup lanes at Flying J (only the safe for drinking ones) and rest area water spickets.
This test resulted in the high levels mentioned above.
2nd test -
Switched to only distilled mineral free water.
In this test all the high levels were back down into acceptable areas.
Talked to Snow after this test and they asked if I would switch back to tap water and test again.
3rd test -
Switched back to tap water.
What do you know, all the mineral levels mentiond above went right back up.
I thought I was done testing. But getting ready to leave out on a trip I thought I had 5 gallons of straight meth but it was empty. I had just changed the oil that day so it was fresh clean oil, and there was a jug of Peak Washer Fluid and an oil sample container on the shelf looking at me. So I ran only Peak brand for about 5000 miles and pulled another sample.
4th test -
Peak WWS resulted in high mineral levels (again) and high cooper and lead. So again I thought I was done testing, but now I needed to see if the copper and lead were from the wws or an engine problem. So..........
5th test -
Ran only distilled water with the meth for about 5000 miles and pulled a sample. the mineral levels and the copper and lead went down.
I'm not going to run anything but distilled water with the meth. Thought I'd share for anyone else interested.
That is illuminating.
08-12-2009, 11:21 AM
#169
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08-12-2009, 02:27 PM
#171
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Iwould have thought they made it with distilled water to keep it from streaking and spotting the windshield......... I'll stick with distilled for now, heat if I need it later added to the distilled.
08-12-2009, 07:19 PM
#172
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Great post! I'm glad this came up before it started getting cold here in Jersey, cause I was planning to add washer fluid to the distilled water for winter so I didn't freeze up.
08-12-2009, 07:44 PM
#173
Registered User
Anyone else here find it hard to believe that tap water can contaminate your oil enough to show significant levels of Aluminum, Silicon, Sodium, Potasium and Magnesium? I don't see it happening... at all really.
08-12-2009, 07:46 PM
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not sure I would want to drink that tap water, but plausable? possibly after 5 k miles of use, wonder if he kept record of how many gallons of this tap water he used during this period.
08-13-2009, 11:56 AM
#176
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Food for thought....so what? If you know why those levels are "high" does it really matter? I just kinda doubt it affects the lube properties enough to worry...since a 5k interval with good dino based oil is pushing it allready on soot levels for the "hotrod" trucks anyways? "Warning" levels of those stated minerals are still relativily low ppm anyways...right?
08-13-2009, 12:12 PM
#177
Registered User
Note: PPM were high enough for Spectrometer to 'Flag' the items, but actual #'s unknown.
EDIT:1:30 - Did find this posted later on....
http://competitiondiesel.com/forums/...5&d=1250028650
EDIT: 3:55 - Here is original post. Anyone on this D-Max web site?............
http://www.duramaxdiesels.com:80/for...ad.php?t=16331
RJ
08-13-2009, 04:02 PM
#178
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Food for thought....so what? If you know why those levels are "high" does it really matter? I just kinda doubt it affects the lube properties enough to worry...since a 5k interval with good dino based oil is pushing it allready on soot levels for the "hotrod" trucks anyways? "Warning" levels of those stated minerals are still relativily low ppm anyways...right?
That's a good point...I'd say it is not extremely critical, UNLESS the particle size is signifant enough to add abrasiveness to the oil...particularly the silicone. A particle size count distribution would be interesting to see in this regard.
--Eric
08-13-2009, 04:29 PM
#179
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Food for thought....so what? If you know why those levels are "high" does it really matter? I just kinda doubt it affects the lube properties enough to worry...since a 5k interval with good dino based oil is pushing it allready on soot levels for the "hotrod" trucks anyways? "Warning" levels of those stated minerals are still relativily low ppm anyways...right?
I would say 3000 miles is enough on the oil, when in the 700 + HP levels.
Dino in Dino out. Take all the nasties out with it.
08-14-2009, 09:21 AM
#180
Administrator
Interesting report (another forum) from user of tap water (tows heavy for a living) and it's effects on oil analysis.....
I put a Snow stage 3 MPG/Max h20/meth setup on my 2007 LBZ truck at about 124,000 miles and I'm now up to 187,000. Shortly after that I did an oil analysis and was shocked by what I saw. High Aluminum, Silicon, Sodium, Potasium and Magnesium. The lab thought I had a coolant leak. But I hadnt noticed any, and with the amount of miles I put on the truck I thought for sure I would have noticed it by then.
After phone calls & emails to Snow, the oil analysis lab, Labonte, and others I decided to change the water source and retest.
The testing went down like this: For each test the engine oil and filter was changed, oil was ran aprox 5000 miles and a sample was pulled.
1st test -
I was running any water from any source. Water from home (softened tap water), water from truck stop spickets like those you see at the camper/rv fillup lanes at Flying J (only the safe for drinking ones) and rest area water spickets.
This test resulted in the high levels mentioned above.
2nd test -
Switched to only distilled mineral free water.
In this test all the high levels were back down into acceptable areas.
Talked to Snow after this test and they asked if I would switch back to tap water and test again.
3rd test -
Switched back to tap water.
What do you know, all the mineral levels mentiond above went right back up.
I thought I was done testing. But getting ready to leave out on a trip I thought I had 5 gallons of straight meth but it was empty. I had just changed the oil that day so it was fresh clean oil, and there was a jug of Peak Washer Fluid and an oil sample container on the shelf looking at me. So I ran only Peak brand for about 5000 miles and pulled another sample.
4th test -
Peak WWS resulted in high mineral levels (again) and high cooper and lead. So again I thought I was done testing, but now I needed to see if the copper and lead were from the wws or an engine problem. So..........
5th test -
Ran only distilled water with the meth for about 5000 miles and pulled a sample. the mineral levels and the copper and lead went down.
I'm not going to run anything but distilled water with the meth. Thought I'd share for anyone else interested.
I put a Snow stage 3 MPG/Max h20/meth setup on my 2007 LBZ truck at about 124,000 miles and I'm now up to 187,000. Shortly after that I did an oil analysis and was shocked by what I saw. High Aluminum, Silicon, Sodium, Potasium and Magnesium. The lab thought I had a coolant leak. But I hadnt noticed any, and with the amount of miles I put on the truck I thought for sure I would have noticed it by then.
After phone calls & emails to Snow, the oil analysis lab, Labonte, and others I decided to change the water source and retest.
The testing went down like this: For each test the engine oil and filter was changed, oil was ran aprox 5000 miles and a sample was pulled.
1st test -
I was running any water from any source. Water from home (softened tap water), water from truck stop spickets like those you see at the camper/rv fillup lanes at Flying J (only the safe for drinking ones) and rest area water spickets.
This test resulted in the high levels mentioned above.
2nd test -
Switched to only distilled mineral free water.
In this test all the high levels were back down into acceptable areas.
Talked to Snow after this test and they asked if I would switch back to tap water and test again.
3rd test -
Switched back to tap water.
What do you know, all the mineral levels mentiond above went right back up.
I thought I was done testing. But getting ready to leave out on a trip I thought I had 5 gallons of straight meth but it was empty. I had just changed the oil that day so it was fresh clean oil, and there was a jug of Peak Washer Fluid and an oil sample container on the shelf looking at me. So I ran only Peak brand for about 5000 miles and pulled another sample.
4th test -
Peak WWS resulted in high mineral levels (again) and high cooper and lead. So again I thought I was done testing, but now I needed to see if the copper and lead were from the wws or an engine problem. So..........
5th test -
Ran only distilled water with the meth for about 5000 miles and pulled a sample. the mineral levels and the copper and lead went down.
I'm not going to run anything but distilled water with the meth. Thought I'd share for anyone else interested.
RowJ:
Thanks for putting that up here.
I saw the same things on my oil analysis' but quite a while back,......over four years ago. I wasn't sure it was all due to the water, but since then I have not used anything but distilled water in my systems. As you probably know or read in some of my past posts, I also can't use methanol in my 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve as I had experienced pretty bad "detonation" with the high "fixed/mechanical" timing I run on my engine.With that being said, that does not seem to be as big a problem with the 24 valve engines or the CR trucks due to their "variable timing" electronic control.
---------
John_P
