Water Injection
04-11-2012, 04:50 PM
#361
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I had a conversation with Matt Snow yesterday. I asked him about the rattle Im getting at high rpm, & he said the rattle was actually quenching, & that I should turn the max inj up higher to reduce the amount injected. He e mailed me a graph showing the combustion delay with straight diesel, straight meth, & 50/50% w/m. It showed that the combustion was delayed by about 5*, & cylinder pressure was increased by about 7-8 bar. Now Im wondering now much the ecm advances timing due to the intake temp drop. That info would be great to know.
04-12-2012, 12:10 PM
#362
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I just called my instructor from Cummins, & he could confirm that timing is adjusted for intake air temp. He couldn't give me any specific details tho. He was teaching a class.
04-19-2012, 02:22 PM
#364
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Well, the water meth was a bust on the dyno. And somehow I lost 50hp and 100tq on fuel only. Might be a bad lift pump. Bummer day for me. :-(
The controler showed injection at 100%, pump light lit, gauge showed pressure. But zero power gain. I'm guessing plugged nozzles. Freaking sucked. Now back to the "what the heck is wrong" drawing board.
But in better news, my buddy (97 auto, stock ish) with the same Tow-Max kit saw some great gains. That is encouraging for me if I ever get the kit to work. He based fuel only at 266hp (I forgot all his tq #s). He picked up 30hp on the EGT mode and 67hp in Boost mode (100% gain w/ 50/50 mix both nozzles were 625s). At 330hp+ he was happy with those numbers.
The controler showed injection at 100%, pump light lit, gauge showed pressure. But zero power gain. I'm guessing plugged nozzles. Freaking sucked. Now back to the "what the heck is wrong" drawing board.
But in better news, my buddy (97 auto, stock ish) with the same Tow-Max kit saw some great gains. That is encouraging for me if I ever get the kit to work. He based fuel only at 266hp (I forgot all his tq #s). He picked up 30hp on the EGT mode and 67hp in Boost mode (100% gain w/ 50/50 mix both nozzles were 625s). At 330hp+ he was happy with those numbers.
04-19-2012, 07:23 PM
#365
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Ditch the 2 piece & just run a single hose. If you have intake temps hot enough to need a high temp hose @ the intake manifold you have bigger problems.
Btw. I think I have mine set now. I turned the max up a little to about 45#, & I don't get the clatter up high now. I'll be loading my camper up in a few weeks for a trip over the mountains & will report back.
Btw. I think I have mine set now. I turned the max up a little to about 45#, & I don't get the clatter up high now. I'll be loading my camper up in a few weeks for a trip over the mountains & will report back.
05-25-2012, 08:33 PM
#366
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A little later than expected, but I got my camper on, & ran it 300 miles over 4 passes with the w/m system on.
I have it set to start @ 25# & max @ about 45#. I found that I couldn't run @ 75 in o/d up the hills because it started quenching shortly after injection started because the w/m increased the boost & where it's set it was too much. But even then I only saw 1220* egt. After dropping a gear to 3rd I only saw 1000* egt briefly, & normally it only got up to 950* egt. The engine was a little louder when it was injecting but I couldn't tell on the concrete hiway but did notice on the newer blacktop.
Burned through 3.5 gal. Of -20 washer fluid. I'm debating on whether to remove the 375 ml nozzle, & run just the 625 ml on the way back. Haven't made up my mind yet, but I have 3 more days turkey hunting to make a decision.
I have it set to start @ 25# & max @ about 45#. I found that I couldn't run @ 75 in o/d up the hills because it started quenching shortly after injection started because the w/m increased the boost & where it's set it was too much. But even then I only saw 1220* egt. After dropping a gear to 3rd I only saw 1000* egt briefly, & normally it only got up to 950* egt. The engine was a little louder when it was injecting but I couldn't tell on the concrete hiway but did notice on the newer blacktop.
Burned through 3.5 gal. Of -20 washer fluid. I'm debating on whether to remove the 375 ml nozzle, & run just the 625 ml on the way back. Haven't made up my mind yet, but I have 3 more days turkey hunting to make a decision.
10-19-2012, 10:40 PM
#367
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Ok. I'm needing a set of injectors, so while the trucks torn down, I'm going to plumb in a multi nozzle set up in the plenum cover.
Right now, I'm running a 625 and 325 but only at 80% gain on the Tow Max controler. Even with the controler gain at 80%, I have to peddle it to keep the line pressure under 100psi. If over 100 psi, the motor gargles and will choke.
So I'm thinking of leaving the 375 nozzle in the horn, and plumbing in three 100 nozzles into the plenum. That will drop the total ml/min from 1,000 ml/min to 675 ml/min. I'm hoping better distribution of the W/M, and lowering the ml/min will help from choking the truck.
I'm not sure which way to adjust my mixture to try to keep the truck running right. I'm on 50/50 now, but it's not liking it. Once it gargled enough to give a good "pop" and it gave a dump of smoke from the pop. This was with the Smarty on stock timing. Getting the Smarty tuned in right is for another thread.
Right now, I'm running a 625 and 325 but only at 80% gain on the Tow Max controler. Even with the controler gain at 80%, I have to peddle it to keep the line pressure under 100psi. If over 100 psi, the motor gargles and will choke.
So I'm thinking of leaving the 375 nozzle in the horn, and plumbing in three 100 nozzles into the plenum. That will drop the total ml/min from 1,000 ml/min to 675 ml/min. I'm hoping better distribution of the W/M, and lowering the ml/min will help from choking the truck.
I'm not sure which way to adjust my mixture to try to keep the truck running right. I'm on 50/50 now, but it's not liking it. Once it gargled enough to give a good "pop" and it gave a dump of smoke from the pop. This was with the Smarty on stock timing. Getting the Smarty tuned in right is for another thread.
10-19-2012, 11:24 PM
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Went to message this fella, but I see he's banned. Bummer. I was hoping to see what nozzles he was running.
10-20-2012, 04:25 PM
#369
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Ok. I'm needing a set of injectors, so while the trucks torn down, I'm going to plumb in a multi nozzle set up in the plenum cover.
Right now, I'm running a 625 and 325 but only at 80% gain on the Tow Max controler. Even with the controler gain at 80%, I have to peddle it to keep the line pressure under 100psi. If over 100 psi, the motor gargles and will choke.
So I'm thinking of leaving the 375 nozzle in the horn, and plumbing in three 100 nozzles into the plenum. That will drop the total ml/min from 1,000 ml/min to 675 ml/min. I'm hoping better distribution of the W/M, and lowering the ml/min will help from choking the truck.
I'm not sure which way to adjust my mixture to try to keep the truck running right. I'm on 50/50 now, but it's not liking it. Once it gargled enough to give a good "pop" and it gave a dump of smoke from the pop. This was with the Smarty on stock timing. Getting the Smarty tuned in right is for another thread.
Right now, I'm running a 625 and 325 but only at 80% gain on the Tow Max controler. Even with the controler gain at 80%, I have to peddle it to keep the line pressure under 100psi. If over 100 psi, the motor gargles and will choke.
So I'm thinking of leaving the 375 nozzle in the horn, and plumbing in three 100 nozzles into the plenum. That will drop the total ml/min from 1,000 ml/min to 675 ml/min. I'm hoping better distribution of the W/M, and lowering the ml/min will help from choking the truck.
I'm not sure which way to adjust my mixture to try to keep the truck running right. I'm on 50/50 now, but it's not liking it. Once it gargled enough to give a good "pop" and it gave a dump of smoke from the pop. This was with the Smarty on stock timing. Getting the Smarty tuned in right is for another thread.
CLICKBANGBNG:
It sounds to me like you are on the right track with your nozzles. I would also recommend dropping the ratio of methanol/water some. Drop the methanol about ten (10) points each time and see how that does for you.
Keep us posted on your results!
---------
John_P
04-21-2014, 10:49 PM
#370
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Quick update! It's been a while, so I thought I'd check in.
Blew the motor. Broke a ring in the #1 cylinder. Truck was running funky after a 800 mile trip for work. It was blowing by fairly bad. I did use the WM on a hill climb. No idea if it had any factor in the ring going bad.
I did plumb the nozzles like planned. Three 100 ml in the intake, and a 375 in the horn. It was running well on a 50/50 with 675 ML worth of nozzles. I was running the Tow Max on EGT mode on, and the kit on 80% gain. You could feel it kick on, and the added power made no extra heat.
Now with the new motor, I've only ran strait water. With EGT on and 100% gain, the water only mix isn't making much power. It's not showing much cooling affect either. I think I'll need to change to larger nozzles to show much on the EGT gauge.
I may try to add in 20% meth and see if I can run the 100% gain. Still playing with it. But I'm a lot gun shy after losing a motor.
Blew the motor. Broke a ring in the #1 cylinder. Truck was running funky after a 800 mile trip for work. It was blowing by fairly bad. I did use the WM on a hill climb. No idea if it had any factor in the ring going bad.
I did plumb the nozzles like planned. Three 100 ml in the intake, and a 375 in the horn. It was running well on a 50/50 with 675 ML worth of nozzles. I was running the Tow Max on EGT mode on, and the kit on 80% gain. You could feel it kick on, and the added power made no extra heat.
Now with the new motor, I've only ran strait water. With EGT on and 100% gain, the water only mix isn't making much power. It's not showing much cooling affect either. I think I'll need to change to larger nozzles to show much on the EGT gauge.
I may try to add in 20% meth and see if I can run the 100% gain. Still playing with it. But I'm a lot gun shy after losing a motor.
04-22-2014, 07:01 AM
#371
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Quick update! It's been a while, so I thought I'd check in.
Blew the motor. Broke a ring in the #1 cylinder. Truck was running funky after a 800 mile trip for work. It was blowing by fairly bad. I did use the WM on a hill climb. No idea if it had any factor in the ring going bad.
I did plumb the nozzles like planned. Three 100 ml in the intake, and a 375 in the horn. It was running well on a 50/50 with 675 ML worth of nozzles. I was running the Tow Max on EGT mode on, and the kit on 80% gain. You could feel it kick on, and the added power made no extra heat.
Now with the new motor, I've only ran strait water. With EGT on and 100% gain, the water only mix isn't making much power. It's not showing much cooling affect either. I think I'll need to change to larger nozzles to show much on the EGT gauge.
I may try to add in 20% meth and see if I can run the 100% gain. Still playing with it. But I'm a lot gun shy after losing a motor.
Blew the motor. Broke a ring in the #1 cylinder. Truck was running funky after a 800 mile trip for work. It was blowing by fairly bad. I did use the WM on a hill climb. No idea if it had any factor in the ring going bad.
I did plumb the nozzles like planned. Three 100 ml in the intake, and a 375 in the horn. It was running well on a 50/50 with 675 ML worth of nozzles. I was running the Tow Max on EGT mode on, and the kit on 80% gain. You could feel it kick on, and the added power made no extra heat.
Now with the new motor, I've only ran strait water. With EGT on and 100% gain, the water only mix isn't making much power. It's not showing much cooling affect either. I think I'll need to change to larger nozzles to show much on the EGT gauge.
I may try to add in 20% meth and see if I can run the 100% gain. Still playing with it. But I'm a lot gun shy after losing a motor.
CLICKBANG:
I have said before that you have to BE CAREFUL on the ratio of "water to methanol" in these Cummins 5.9 Engines! I don't know if your engine failure was a result of the mixture or not, but I would go easier this time!
Another thought for you. I HIGHLY recommend you NOT running JUST water through your engine! You need to add some type of water pump/cylinder lubricant with the water such as NAPA's "Number 13" Water Pump and Anti-Rust Solution or "Bars Leak" Water Pump/Anti-Rust Lubricant. I can tell you that WITHOUT one of those products, your cylinder head is going to develop rust! How do I know that? Because it happened to me on my 1996 Dodge CTD and I have posted that here earlier in this thread.
Anyway,....good luck Sir!
04-23-2014, 07:56 AM
#373
Wow, great thread! Lots of good reading. I also plan on purchasing and installing a water/meth. kit for my truck soon.
I do have one question that was lightly discussed here. I plan on getting the Snow Perf. Stage 3 MPG-MAX and plan on installing the nozzles in my intake horn but little was discussed regarding the Grid Heater.
Are most people here that have installed their nozzles in the intake horn keeping or removing the Grid Heater ? What is the Pro or Con ?
Thx
I do have one question that was lightly discussed here. I plan on getting the Snow Perf. Stage 3 MPG-MAX and plan on installing the nozzles in my intake horn but little was discussed regarding the Grid Heater.
Are most people here that have installed their nozzles in the intake horn keeping or removing the Grid Heater ? What is the Pro or Con ?
Thx
04-24-2014, 06:22 AM
#375
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Quick update! It's been a while, so I thought I'd check in.
Blew the motor. Broke a ring in the #1 cylinder. Truck was running funky after a 800 mile trip for work. It was blowing by fairly bad. I did use the WM on a hill climb. No idea if it had any factor in the ring going bad.
I did plumb the nozzles like planned. Three 100 ml in the intake, and a 375 in the horn. It was running well on a 50/50 with 675 ML worth of nozzles. I was running the Tow Max on EGT mode on, and the kit on 80% gain. You could feel it kick on, and the added power made no extra heat.
Now with the new motor, I've only ran strait water. With EGT on and 100% gain, the water only mix isn't making much power. It's not showing much cooling affect either. I think I'll need to change to larger nozzles to show much on the EGT gauge.
I may try to add in 20% meth and see if I can run the 100% gain. Still playing with it. But I'm a lot gun shy after losing a motor.
Blew the motor. Broke a ring in the #1 cylinder. Truck was running funky after a 800 mile trip for work. It was blowing by fairly bad. I did use the WM on a hill climb. No idea if it had any factor in the ring going bad.
I did plumb the nozzles like planned. Three 100 ml in the intake, and a 375 in the horn. It was running well on a 50/50 with 675 ML worth of nozzles. I was running the Tow Max on EGT mode on, and the kit on 80% gain. You could feel it kick on, and the added power made no extra heat.
Now with the new motor, I've only ran strait water. With EGT on and 100% gain, the water only mix isn't making much power. It's not showing much cooling affect either. I think I'll need to change to larger nozzles to show much on the EGT gauge.
I may try to add in 20% meth and see if I can run the 100% gain. Still playing with it. But I'm a lot gun shy after losing a motor.