big red psd cc

Buddy of mine has 04.5 600 2wd Auto with a Dec 2003engine/Jan 04 truck build date, 5500 miles.

1st start of the day...tons of white and blue smoke.

Rest of the day...popping and farting out the tailpipe with a 'whoosh' noise being heard at idle. Running around it runs but can still feel the misfire.

MPG is 11-13 TOPS!!!! not towing a thing.

Dealer has had it 3 times now....running around chasing their tails to try and fix it.

OH YEAH...almost forgot....the turbo is howling....but that they knew was bad, so thats on order.

But as for the "running" part, they put a boost sensor (why I have no clue....no SES lights or anything), said loose intercooler boots were the cause...ehhhhh Nope, now its like ehhhh...we'll see what we can do.

What's up with this truck guys????

J BODY

I'd have to charge to make a house call Sorry to hear you're still fighting that one.

CTDHokie

Any clue what pressures he is seeing in the high pressure fuel rail. If he has a bad pump and low pressure he may experience some of those issues.

big red psd cc

Jbody....

Yeah....really

They did the reflash, and ordered a turbo for his.

Funny thing is mine is back in the shop too......cooling fan and wastegate control codes, and I haven't had the box in it since you fixed it for me.

J BODY

I looked over the diag when you pm'ed me about the fan codes. It looked pretty ugly for an intermittent prob. Can't say I've seen any wastegate codes yet either. Do you have the P# for those? On your friends truck I would start with the basics and test the lift pump volume, and check the psi limiting valve like we did with yours just to eliminate them as possible causes (easy stuff). Next the rail psi needs to be monitored to make sure the actual psi is in line with the target psi. I would then do the power balance test twice and write down the data and send it to tech. The way you explain the smoke, miss, I would have to think there would be an obvious drop in the power %'s in some of the cylinders. It's also good to do that test with the solenoid unplugged on the high psi pump but the tech had better call star on that one before he tries it. You want to have the test ready and only run the truck long enought to get the data and hold it, and shut the engine down as it runs the rail psi to the moon and you can possibly damage the psi limiting valve. Let me know what they find ( or think they find) on the fan and the waste gate.

spudman

it happened to mine last week blackened the rear quarter panel pretty good it stopped misfireing after about 30 miles took it to the dealer this morning but they said it threw no codes. it back to normal now but gave me a pretty good scare

spudman

ps mileage on the overhead dropped 5-6 mpg during the episode and climbed steadily back to normal after it was over

big red psd cc

They said they saw the codes in the ECM, but have no clue why....so their diagnosis...........there is no problem. The SES came on couple weeks ago........and then again on sunday....yet they said ...."don't worry".

.........like they said last time..........and that is how I got to meet J-Body in person.....

As for my buddy.........they did a ECM reflash...said its "ok". They said that last time toooooooooo.

But his mpg has been doing the samething as you spudman....down the tubes!

big red psd cc

Ok....here we go.....

Went with him to pick up the truck....they put the turbo in and did the TSB for the PCM reflash.

Put it into reverse....pop..pop...pop...from the exhaust, and you can feel the truck shake when it does it.

Go get the Service Manager who is a blinking IDIOT! Says that diesels can't misfire because they don't have spark plugs....(YA DON'T SAY!!!!)

When I told him about them running on fuel with fuel injectors and maybe a bad fuel injector (imagine that) ....he goes....."well all diesels have a idle fluctuation"

J-Body....you working next week??????

shemp47

I noticed my less then one month old 04.4 2500 seemed to rattle a little when new but it now occasionally blows blue smoke on cold starts, idles rough, seems to mis-fire and getting erratic and less then claimed MPG (6.5 to 12 city) and 12 to 14.5 highway at 70mph or less. I now notice what sounds like a fuel knock at idle and power seems less then new, now at only 2000miles.. 0 to 60 seems to be 10.5 seconds and was closer to 8.5 when new.

I have been reading other posts about injector problems and even a CTD that self-destructed due to an apparently stuck injector After owning a few diesels and experiencing some injector problems I would guess that many 04’ Cummins 600’s are experiencing some sort of injector problems. my Rig is going in next week for a check but I would feel better if I had a whole new set of injectors.

Btw, does anyone know if it is possible to flow check or bench check the new 600 injectors?

big red psd cc

I am sure they could be......but you wont find a dealer to do so,

As for the idle knock.....yup his has that too..........mine doesn't.

Yup his mpg is 10-12 period, and its far from quick.

shemp47

My Knocking, smoking and rough running 04.5 Cummins 600 just spent the day at the shop.. As I expected they said that without any computer codes or being able to duplicate the rough idle or blue smoke they cannot act.

Service manager said what I described was unheard of and they have had “0” problems with the 04’ Cummins… I showed him about a dozen posts of people with "04" cummings having the same problem and worst, and even the one about the 03’ that self-destructed due to a stuck injector and did not show any codes.

He said an injector was unlikely and not the case with my vehicle. I played him the clip of the one person’s CTD before and after the injector replacement, but I was informed that Dodge will not act on data obtained from a website and such information was pointless.

Bottom line is that Dodge will not remove, inspect or replace an injector for noise, questionable performance, rough running or a low mpg.. Sort of confirms my assumption that warranties are more a marketing ploy then a guaranty or protection..


As for the pronounced “knock” and “pinging” rattle I could not seem to get them to even respond to that issue other then “it is normal”, However that knocking has recently become just as pronounced in drive as in neutral and on light acceleration it is starting to occasionally sound like a “Rod Knock I just listened to another almost identical truck with 8,000 miles that produced no Knocking or pinging at all.

Fuel Economy is still around 8mpg to 10mpg in town and 65mph steady state mpg by the computer on level ground, no wind 14 to 15.2mpg..

I Filled up a couple of nights ago and spoke with a new owner of a ram 3500 dulley, who just bought it in southern CA . Even with an oversized camper and Wells Cargo trailer his second fill-up produced 13 mpg after pulling the pass into southern Oregon at 60 + mph.

They did say that mine is within the range for a PCM Flash update but I am hesitant to have it performed until the other issues are resolved.

I would be interested if anyone else has a similar story or soultion ?

bkrukow

My engine noises are growing by the day. Its getting real old hearing my service manager say theres nothing wrong and he cant realy hear the very loud anoying tick that overpowers the entire motor sound some times. I have had it in a few times now and they cant find anything wrong. I went to collage to be a mechanic but have been working as a CNC Machinest ever sence. A budie of mine that I graduated with is a mechanic for the Ford half of the dealership and said that they have not got a Chrysler certified diesel mechanic any more. Ther old one quite a while ago so now the Ford diesel tech does what he can with the Dodges. I think I may head down the road to a little larger dealership. and interveiw the diesel tech before I let him touch the truck. Mine also smokes at startup when it is cold. The longer it sits the wors the smoke. I drive it every day so it usaly just lets a little puff go but if it sits for around 36 hours it will realy smoke. The longest it has sat sence I bought it in March is when I was in Colorado in June. I was out riding ATVs for most of the week and it sat most of the time. When I started it to come home it had been sitting for abought 48 hours and when I started it it was around 35 degs. I thought it was going to blowup. It ran like crap for abought 10-15 seconds. It was only running on a few cylinders and smoking like I aint never seen a 1st gen smoke. Dealer says nothings wrong. Whatever.

J BODY

Well the truck in question is in AZ now and it's "hero or zero" time for me. Results to follow.......

shemp47

A friend with a new Ford PSD who is getting less then 10mpg and knocking engine is encountering the same resistance.

My knocking and missing is obvious, and they agree that mine knocks and misses, and the vehicles do not, but they say all diesels knock and miss. They did say mine is in the short production range that has TSBs for the same problems but mine is fine and the knocking is normal. . I played them the sound clips of other engines with less knocking then mine and how after injector replacement they did not clatter not the case in my case.. I showed them 13 accounts from the web with similar, identical and worse cases and how it all related to injector problems..

I think the bottom line is that Dodge has a problem, but it if they admit it, or word gets out then they will have a big public relations and opinion problem, I also suspect Dodge is doing apparently just what Ford tried to do do with the new 6.0 PSDs. Its common knowledge they have a lot of issues problem, but it would appear that it took two years to get the facts through the deception and become public knowledge.

Gm had a similar issue for the first two years with the Duramax and vortec engines, with bad injectors, blowing heads and piston slap, but they managed to cloud the issue unit a patch-up was invented and new redesigned engines were out. They then offered a little token support (they call it a campaign) for people with problems and advertise they are addressing the issue and taking care of customers, but make the fix patch and getting it another ordeal at least.

I think what I am experiencing with Dodge is likely a “deny and confuse” phase of a campaign.

They are to an extent giving the mushroom treatment to dealers and the public. The problem comes when you confront the mushroom fertilizer with fact and logic.. Typically when you confront a representative of the Company and company line.. He relies on a pay check and typically sees no path but to respond with contrived excuses.. Then, when you confront those excuses with evidence and logic it you are then attacking their ego and it becomes a personal matter and they predictably respond with denial and the defense mechanisms. At that point adding logic only assaults the ego further and leads to argument.

Right now no matter what I present to them it is viewed with suspect and contempt. I simply asked them to consider the evidence and consider there could be a problem, and then get a game plan to troubleshoot and resolve the issue, Similar experience with an expedition and a warranty issue with a PSD F250 nearing the end of the factory warranty. .. I now see the process and tried to avoid a battle of egos, but once you prove them wrong I think you will find little chance getting past the blindness that their policies and egos produce.

The policy I just saw is not to let a customer talk to a mechanic, and even service writers are prohibited from responding to questions.. It was amazing, even the service manager was well trained as to how to avoid and confuse a direct question. After 6 repetitions of the same question I never got a direct answer, he responded with first another question, then an accusation, then a diversion, then an excuse, then an absurdity… Finally, after 45 minutes of trying to keep the service manager focused on the facts and the question he started to squirm and relented by saying he would fax the tech support group with a question. I predict that response will be a rubber stamp of the service manager’s assertions and confusions.

Unless I get some resolve from “STAR” tech support My guess is that a lemon law case will be the result. I am carrying my Camcorder and going to attempt to video the next smoking event.. Perhaps if some of us get together and combine forces we can push for a next stage of the “Campaign”