Bluedresser

I called my dealer yesterday when I read the psot. He said that the dealership prep people use a lot of oil as well as trans. and diff. fluids while doing the predelivery checks. Apparantly low fluid levels from the factories is nothing new, but a thorough predelivery should fix it before it ever gets out the door. Even so, I'll keep my fingers crossed and my eyes open. ???

wantabee

Just got off the phone with my dealer...this has been a most unfortunate circumstance...but behind the scenes the dealer and DC have worked together to rectify this situation ASAP. I truely beleive that DC and the 5 star dealer system does stand for customer service...I feel that I have been very well served by all levels of DC. I truely beleive that there was sufficient lubricant in the differential...a faulty bearing was the cause of this Americian Axle failure.<br><br>The Principal at my dealership told me that a TSB has been issued on this axle to check bearings and rear end. I have not seen it....but I am sure the Canadian Transport Safety Boards intervention no doubt had a positive influence in the timely issuance of this TSB to ensure the safety of all new HD owners.<br><br>The long and short of it I feel like I have been in the trenches the past few days...sleepless nights etc....but looking back...DC and my dealer worked on this issue as fast as the could.....I am sure the truck will be in tip top shape when I receive it back.<br><br><br>Take Care...I will let you know when I get the truck back and my impressions.....thank you for your support and suggestions during this most difficult period. <br><br><br>Wantabee

Lil Dog

I'm glad all has turned out well.. I would think that the dealer would have gone to bat for you.. They are on the line as well and don't need the bad publisity...<br><br>Good luck on your new ride...<br><br>J-eh

Hunter

Ok gang<br><br>Went to the dealer today, 1 quart low (25%) on the rear end lube, 1 pint down in the front end, transfer case correct.<br><br>They had not heard of it at all, they are checking all the trucks on their lot, and recalling all their own customers that have purchased a vehicle to make sure the fluid is correct!<br><br>Plus, they checked the PDI list from DC, it says &quot;visually inspect the rear end, front end and transfer case for visible leaks&quot;<br><br>So, Wannabee, DC is not telling the dealer to open the cases up and look, just look for leaks (which makes sense) one would think the darn factory would make sure it was good to go prior to sending it to the dealer!<br><br>Hunter

pwabbott

As I said before I didn't believe it was the dealer's responsibility to check fluid in differential. After all these vehicles have various amounts of mileage when they get to the dealer. They should not be driven at all unless lubricants are at proper level. I have seen trailer axles delivered to RV factory. All are delivered with proper bearing packing from the axle manufacturer. <br><br>Would it be responsible for D-C to ship trucks without the proper oil in crankcase. How would any of us feel if our 2003 were delivered without enough engine oil to show on the dip-stick. Knowing it had been driven 4 miles before it reached the dealer, how would you feel.<br><br>D-C takes an occasional vehicle from the end of the assembly line and test drives it for up to fifty miles. My 98 Ram was delivered with a window sticker stating it had been driven up to fifty miles before shipping. I would have been furious if my 98 had been delivered without a full crankcase. <br><br>I think American Axle is to blame in this matter. I also think the TSB saying the correct level is not what the Owner's Manual states is a bunch of BS by American Axle to cover themselves because they know know they have shipped axles underfilled.<br><br>They are not a new manufacturer of axles. Since there is no dipstick designed into these axles why would they design them with the fill hole way above the proper fluid level? They know that it is a standard practice to fill differentials to the bottom of the fill hole where there is no dip-stick. <br><br>See how far you can safely stick your pinkie into the fill hole. I found the limit of my reach downward was about 3/4&quot;. <br><br>I prefer to have slightly more fluid than needed to lubricate and cool gears and bearings than to have bearing and gear failure. As low as the fill hole is I doubt it will be expelled from the differential vent. If they fear seal may fail with lubricant at a higher level, then the seals are of inferior. <br><br>The bottom of the fill hole should lie within the parameters of the proper fluid level or the differential cover has a defective design in my way of thinking.

alabat

I think IT IS the DEALERS responsibility to check out all fluid levels and operate all features to assure me that when I got my '03 that all was OK and Functioning. That is why they call it PDI!!<br><br>That said, I did speak to my service manager and he said that DC does NOT put Synethic rear end lube in at the factory. But that they do recomened it if you are doing a lot of towing.<br><br>I am going to change my rear gear oil this weekend for my own peace of mind and put in Mobil 1 gear lube.<br>

pwabbott

Byuram, If D-C quality control states sign off on the vehicle for shipping, they are saying it is OK to drive. If the rear axle is underfilled or unfilled it is not OK to drive. Such vehicles if delivered to dealer have damage already when they are delivered to the dealer as they have been driven without proper lubrication. These have are defective in the manufacturing process on delivery to the dealer. Adding fluid can't undo the damage, only replacement of damaged parts can. <br><br>Read Hunters post, &quot;they checked the PDI list from DC, it says 'visually inspect the rear end, front end and transfer case for visible leaks'&quot;. D-C does not expect the dealer to check axle fluid level. <br><br>I was visiting a mmanufacturing plant last year. In talking with a quality control supervisor he stated, &quot;our profits disappear quickly if we allow products to be shipped when defective. We can correct defects for $20 at the factory that may cost us Hundreds if they get to the dealer&quot;.<br><br>What is AAM's responsibility in this? They ship a finished component, the finished rear axle assembly, to the D-C Assembly Plant. Only they can be sure their product leaves their plant and eventually is delivered to the customer in good condition.

bulabula

Here are some possible rhetorical questions:<br><br>- Who put the blue paint marks on both of my fill plugs?<br>-Who put the white DOT on them?<br>- Were the diff's filled and plugs marked to indicate tampering? Or were they shipped dry and plugs marked anyway?<br><br>- Is my truck the only truck with blue paint marks and a white dot on the diff plugs? For three and a half pretty big ones, I never thought I'd be laying under a truck at night inspecting the things I did after owning it a week.<br><br>Pardon my cynicism, but why would any corporation in the business to make money (and that my friends is the bottom line here), even waste the time, effort, material cost of applying paint marks if THEY ALL disavow responsibility? Which it appears to me. We all know why, cuz it cuts into profits.<br><br>All I know is that someone turned both my plugs an additional 1/8 of a turn in prior to me picking it up. Jeez, I sincerely hope that they were inspected by someone rather than a monkey merely turning a wrench.<br><br>

FiverBob

WHO'S ON FIRST??? ??? IS THERE A SHORT STOP ANYWHERE? ARE WE SURE WHO MADE THE AXLE AND HOW FAR TO FILL IT? ???<br><br>This is about to get rediculous, and a bunch of us could be hurting beside the road trying to earn a living or out on vacation.<br><br>&quot;DC says 3/4&quot; below fill hole.&quot; &quot;American says 3/4&quot; to 1&quot;&quot;. One service man says the axle has Dino in it. Another says it is synthetic. <br><br>My manual, page 311, says the 11.5 axle is to have fluid 1/4&quot; plus or minus 1/4&quot; from the fill hole, which to me means a maximum of 1/2&quot; from the hole.<br><br>My manual, page 340, says GL-5 75W-90 Synthetic which to me means it has synthetic in it when delivered. <br><br>Now, who do we contact to get it right? I will be at my dealers tomorrow seeking answers. I have printed this whole thread out for the service manager and owner to see. We need the straight dope, guys.<br><br>VeryVeryConfusedBob

wantabee

Boys:<br><br>DC flew in a complete new axle assembly...test drove the truck and now there is a vibration at speeds over 100 km (60mph) in the steering shaft to the wheel. When the speed was increased to 100 to 120 km (66-72mph) there is a strong vibration throughout the front of the drivetrain. This was not in the truck before the axle broke. The technician feels it maybe some other part of the drivetrain...is awaiting direction from tech center. Has any other member experienced this vibration at these speeds?<br><br>I looked at the axle...the bearing totally disintergrated in many pieces....the only thing that was keeping the tire on the vehicle was the caliber from the new rear disk brakes. I revert to my earlier posts....we were very lucky not to have been involved in a serious crash. No one seems to know why the axle failed....with a serious vibration currently appearing throughout the drivetrain...I have to wonder is this vehicle safe??? <br>My position on this matter after owning a new HD Ram for 9 days, 3 &amp;1/2 od which I have driven, (the rest it has been in the shop) is that I am less than satisfied. The last time I checked in the mirror I did have have pointly ears or run in a circle on a tread mill.....I don't live in wood cuttings.....and I don't like being treated like a Guini pig . As such...I have asked DC to take this vehcile for complete testing to determine the part failures .....I do not feel safe in this particular vehicle.....take it back...and give me a new one....with only 500miles on it,,,find and correct the defects and use it as a demonstrator at the dealer. Don't expect the customer to make payments on a vehicle which I do not have ...my dealer has informed my wife that he does not support the replacement of the vehicle....we should just sit back and let this run its course. Not good enough. If this is customer servuice...give us our money back... there are other brands of diesel trucks in town which must provide better service. You buy a couch for a grand the spring breaks....the furniture store delievers another and takes the broken one ack. Spend 45G on a new truck...it breaks on the first tank of fuel....your stuck with it until they find out what caused the failure...something wrong with this picture <br><br>I fully realize that DC went through great expense to fly in a new axle from Mexico to go on my vehicle....there is more damage...but with such low milage I should not be expected to wait. Who is to say there was not another part of the drivetrain which contributed to the differential failure. It needs to be examined in detail.<br><br>The DC HD trucks were and are currently being advertised as the best on the block.....I, to date am not convinced considering the mess which I currently find myself with the Americian axles and the problem with my drivetrain. <br><br> :-[<br><br>Wantabee

pwabbott

Fiver, I agree, we need answers not more confusion. Since the time of the Model &quot;T&quot; axles have been filled to the botton of the fill hole. If you drop it down a quarter inch that allows for expansion on heation without it being over filled. This has been the standard for almost a century. If you believe the TSB garbage all that would change. To fill correctly you need visual evidence. One inch down, any guess is good enough using that standard. What do you measure with, my pinkie will not go in that far. A piece of rusty bailing wire will be just fine to fish around for that synthetic stuff.

In 1995 the Jeep Service Manual gave the minuimum fluid level as 3/8 &quot; below fill hole, maximum lever fill hole. That seems reasonable. Can't the AAM engineers design a differential cover correctly for their product. The TSB stating correct level is 1&quot; below makes them out to be a bunch of idiots. Maybe the TSB was written by a lawyer.

We need answers now.

Sorry if this was garbled. Since Gray Out Davis was re-elected we have had nothing but power problems. Power went off last night stayed off till about 10:00 am. Went off again this evening about 5:20. This post is courtesy of our 5KW gasoline generator to give us minimum electrical. ??? ???

bulabula

wantabee, about your vibes, are they speed related, rpm related, or are they always there, just worse over 60 mph?<br><br>I'm sure they'll check the obvious rotating masses, tires, wheels (did they possibly remove all tires during repairs, and rotate them), driveshaft(s), u-joints....<br><br>The siezure could have placed a lot of stress on the tranny and its mounts. I don't know what kind of mounting system is used on these trucks, but have them check for loose mounts and/or the tranny itself - thinking (wild guess) that a vibe from the tranny area could possibly find its way thru the steering system.<br><br>Someone else on this site reported vibes when test driving a new '03 and another said they noticed it too. Maybe yours had something similar, but didn't notice it do to the excitement of a new truck?<br><br>Keep your cool and don't give up; have them systematically eliminate possible causes until they solve it. It isn't that hard.

pwabbott

Bulabula, I have the blue marks and a white one on my filler plug and differential cover. They didn't line up either. I wonder how much the peon who makes marks on diff plug and cover gets paid?

wantabee

Bubula:<br><br>My truck prior to this failure was smooth as silk at any speed. I asked the tech about the wheels, position of drive shaft...all wheels /shafts were put back on their original positions. This is a new vibration...others that have drievn the truck also claimed that there was no vibrations when the truck was driven prior to the axle failure. Something else has occurred within the drivetrian...I feel the only way to repair it know would be to put in a complete new driveshaft, tranny, torque converter and fly wheel. This would eliminate all possible ill affects of the axle failure and temporary lockup of the complete differential at time of axle failure.<br><br>Wantabee

pwabbott

Wantabee, quite a few years ago I was driving maybe 35 in my car. All of a sudden it bucked, then no power to the wheels. I got out and looked at the rear wheels. The right one was out about 2 ft from the fender axle in plain view. My neighbor, a mechanic helped to tear it down. The rear wheel bearing was in pieces and the axle was twisted into two pieces. We replaced the axle with a used one and new bearings. Never gave another problem after that. Bearings that lock up when they go will do all sorts of damage to the rear axle because of the trementous torque. Replacing the whole axle assembly is the easy way for D-C. I'm sure you won't get it back until they are confident it is safe.