Cheers to Peter and Southbend Clutch
 

Three big cheers to Peter at Southbend Clutch who went beyond the call of duty to support a customer. I ordered a new Southbend Clutch from Lary at our DTR Store for my 3500 6 speed stick Ram. I had it installed by the Ram Dealer. Upon test drive, I was not happy at all with the pedal operation - - way too hard and engagement was barely off the floorboard. Talked to Lary who talked to Peter who then called me. Peter worked hand in hand with my dealer in working toward solutions to this problem including shipping another clutch to the dealer before they tore it back down. I just got the truck back from the dealer. While the pedal is still quite firm, I have to remember I have a much stronger clutch than stock. What I am very impressed with is the engagement of the clutch - - so much smoother and positive than the stock clutch. I feel much more confident in heading to Alaska in one month with 16,000 pounds dragging behind me in my mirrors.

Thanks Peter for being there when I needed you and working so closely with the installer - - it helped relieve some pressure because I was caught in the middle. I call that superior customer service.

Bob

Good to hear. Which version clutch did you go with?

Glad to hear!

Hi Mikey - - - I went with the 1947 OKHD. A little less radical that the DD. Sure is smooth. Just wish it pushed a bit lighter.

After all our fussing around trying to find someone, the dealer came through with the best price. Unusual.

Just one more reason why I will also be going with a SB clutch!! [guitar]

I agree. Peter and SBC have helped me out a couple times too. When I need another clutch, they have my business.

Wish I could say the same. I had a garage replace my clutch a year ago- started to get pedal vibration about a month ago and had them diagnose when it went in for the front end 3 weeks ago.

Long story short- Last week the shop told me the clutch/kit was out of warranty per distributor since it was 13 months out (12 month warranty). They said they had put in a Valair kit, so I called Valair- who immediately said, "we'll work with you and your shop, what's the part number for the kit". I give them the part number and they say sorry- but that's a Southbend. I call Southbend and get a guy named Brian who immediately got defensive about it possibly being warrantied, pointing fingers at me or the shop as the problem. Nothing but attitude from Southbend, where Valair would have helped.

I have to say I was flabbergasted at the experience. I've read nothing but good things about both companies- but my phone calls proved night and day differences in how they approach their customers.

This was all Friday/Monday over this last weekend...sounds like maybe I should have asked for the guy named Peter at Southbend....

I do not know hwo Brian is, but I DO know Peter is the owner of SBC...I would defintiely give them another call and kindly ask to call you back at a mutally convenient time, as I have read way too many threads describing his outstanding customer service and help beyond the call of many situations and far beyond warranty dates

FYI-- I am unsure as to your approach the last time you called, but be sure to keep ANY and ALL bad attitude and demands from your conversation...instead, take the time to calmly describe the clutch problem, HOW it developed, WHEN it developed, WHAT the insatllers opinion is, and ask Peter what he thinks may be the likely cause of the problem. Whenever it comes up, I would explain to the clutch being one month out of waranty, but also explain to him that your problem is highly unexpected given the reputation of the quality of their products and service, whihc id why you decided to purchase an SBC clutch in the firast place. I am NOT saying to brown nose him, but only to stay FREINDLY and FOCUSED on the problem and what they can do to HELP diagnose and fix it. Also, I am not making any excuses for anyone's behavior, but of course any of us can have a bad day, particlualry on a Friday, so I think another approach is warranted. Just know I have seen in a thread where Peter himself admits more likliehood to help out when the customer stays freindly and informative, not aggressive and demanding. Again, I apologize in advance if that is the way you were being in the first place, and Brian simply escalated the situation, but I am ONLY trying to help you get your problem resolved!

All that being said, MANY of the problems with a clutch CAN be traced back to improper installation, but I have seen SBC come through for even that.

Peter himself is the man to talk to.
He got back to me on a simple issue and was patient.

South Bend is good people.

I definitely don't go in guns blazing. I've never seen getting angry solve anything. I'm pretty level headed 99% of the time, and approached both companies the same way- asking about a "potential" warranty claim, immediately owning up to being just beyond the warrantied period, and was asking for availability of repair parts first and foremost, as my installer's distributor (whom I also called to verify things with) told me I had to pay for a whole new kit rather than just buy a throw-out bearing or pressure plate, or whatever was broke.

Both companies said no problem to getting parts without kits, but Brian's tone, phone etiquette, and approach at Southbend was so unprofessional it literally caught me off guard, especially after hearing Valair take a laid back, no problem, we're here to help approach. Brian didn't even let me finish explaining the situation and ask my questions before he interrupted with a negative tone and accusations. I get it could be a bad day- we all have them. But we can all choose our attitudes too- I didn't call and start yelling, so I don't deserve to call and be talked down to.

That's why I posted- the same call, to two different companies provided a stark contrast in how the customer was treated. Peter may be the owner and a wonderful person- but Brian was the face of his company. I didn't talk to the owner at Valair either- I don't recall his name (I wish I did- he deserves credit for being such a great asset to his company), but his name isn't listed on their website either, and I believe most posts regarding Valair say to talk to Dan- and I know it wasn't a Dan I talked to. So all things being equal, Valair really shone like a star in my experience. I should mention, I'm not affiliated with Valair or Southbend in any way- I'm just an ordinary average guy (as Joe Walsh would say- I even drive a Dodge).

Anyway- I hope my experience is a one-off thing. My issue is really with my installer- he's the guy I paid, he's the guy I have to deal with. I just saw the post and thought- wow, another great Southbend post, yet I was treated poorly. I felt I had to share. Hopefully Peter reads this and straightens Brian out (or Brian himself reads this and takes it into consideration when talking to customers). I feel like I got it off my chest in an appropriate and constructive manner- so hopefully everybody gets a little something out of it.

Hey Bob, thanks for the update.

Keep us informed on how the new clutch works out on the trip to Alaska. :)

Sure hate to hear this but unfortunately it is not the first time I have heard this about Brian. The problem WILL be fixed. I appologize for customer service you received from us!

Peter

Installed the Southbend heavy duty hydraulics package in the truck for my new clutch. It definitely decreased the pressure required to depress the clutch. I think maybe the wife could actually depress this now. ......[laugh]

Very interesting doing this for the first time - - little things take forever until you figure out the easy way to do it. Under the truck, under the dash, in the engine, under the truck, under the dash, in the . . .. . well, you get the idea. Tough getting two arms plus my big head under the dashboard for a 6"3" guy - - right side ribs are sure sore. ................:(...............[nonono]............from the feel after test drive, it will be well worth it. I could just see blowing out the stock hydraulics in the middle of the Yukon in a couple weeks.

Thanks again, Peter

Bob

X2 on Peter at Southbend Clutch. Took care of me on a another truck that grenaded a few clutches before the SB.

This is one of the reasons I peruse this site. There isn't as much dealer interaction now as there once was, but it is still nice to see.

Peter... do you still have that 4bt SBC Jeep?

Peter is a salt of the earth kind of guy....nothing he does in an attempt to improve Customer Service surprises me...he continues to earn my respect every time I read his responses :)

While on the subject of clutches...
 

Well, the clutch appears to be on its way out in my wife's 03. I've noticed for a while now that the engagement was getting higher and higher on the pedal. Also, last summer while hauling hay I was slightly bogged down in the pasture and truck started "hammering" as the wheels were slipping in the mud. At first I just chalked it up to the Thorsen-style anti spin setup, but the thought of a slipping/grabbing clutch was in the back of my mind. Last night, while backing the camper up a hill (only about 10K pounds) it really started hammering again, so I had to feather the clutch while raising rpm. When I was done, the wife wrinkled her nose and asked what that smell was. My only reply was "your clutch". So, she's not happy about that.
The real kicker? Her truck only has just a hair over 76K miles on it! Yup, that's right. Less than 100k miles! I have never had a clutch go so quickly on me. Granted, we DO haul pretty heavy sometimes, but I am always patient and use the ZTL on takeoff, always start in first (even unloaded) and NO, we do not have any type of programmer/chip on it. I am an old guy and don't think these things are built for racing - they are for hauling loads, and I am never in a hurry when I am going down the road with five times more weight than anyone else around me. The stock clutch in my 01 lasted well past 150K, and I haul almost as much with that truck as we do with the 03.
I grew up with a manual transmission, and so did my wife. When I met her, she was driving a 1973 Chevy C10 with three-on-the-tree, and I had my 1978 Power Wagon (4 spd man). We don't have any bad habits like riding the clutch, we always shift to neutral when stopped/idling and then drop our foot off of the clutch pedal.
Anyway, the truck has an appointment for a visit to the local tranny shop down the road next week. At least around here the guys at the shop are familiar with trucks used to haul. He asked me some very good questions while talking to him. Things like: how much weight do you haul, do you have a chip, how often do you drive this truck, etc. He said that he had a brand of heavy-duty replacement clutches he has had very good luck with. I will ask him more when I drop it off, but anything has to better than this quick to fail OEM one.
I have had good luck with the SPEC Stage II installed in my truck at 201K miles. My only complaint is that the clutch engages lower than I had gotten used to - just about two inches off the floor.

Done ventin'...

The "hammering" as you describe it and the conditions also speak to "axle wrap".

That is where traction bars come in handy!

Interesting
 

OK, tell me more before I commit to a $900 clutch replacement next Wednesday.
In my original post I also mentioned the fact that engagement had traveled to the upper end of pedal travel and there was stinky clutch smelling smoke as I rode the OEM to its final resting place in the sky in order to move the camper to a higher spot to allow the RV cover to be built this week. If I can save a dime, I am all ears!

Ok, first the clutch... it is possible at this point that you smoked the clutch by slipping it to avoid the "hammering". You may have to replace the clutch regardless. I can't diagonse that from the internet. Some clutches get really "grabby" and cause something like you describe, but then it would be all the time, not just certain situations.

The two scenarios you describe are classic axle wrap. Ever go to drag races and see a wheel "hop" when the green light hits and the clutch is dumped?

What happens in a nutshell is that the torque in the driveline and axle cause the axle to pivot in the springs. (think of the front of the pinion and u-joint suddenly start to point upwards to the bed or down toward the ground from its normal position). When the axle pivots, it reaches a point where the spring tension overcomes the "wrap" and forces the axle back into position and the process starts all over again. It happens quickly and violently and can destroy your u-joints. Ladder bars, traction bars, Cal-tracs are devices that prevent that axle wrap by maintaining the axle geometry. Cal Tracs are the cheapest and easiest to install. Feathering the clutch as you did simply removed the torque from the drivetrain to a degree that stopped the wrap from happening. The first time it happened to me I was in deep snow... this has nothing to do with the anti-spin diferential.

Google "axle wrap" for better explanations than mine for a clearer understanding.
Good Luck!

Thanks. Yeah, I remember seeing the guys bolting the ladder bars to their rear leafs to stop the hopping on clutch-dump launches years ago.

The first time I felt it was several years ago in soft sugar-sand while pulling our fifth wheel. Never had it since then until last summer, but the clutch has really started to engage higher and higher. It is near the top inch of pedal travel now. I guess since the magic gripping smoke leaked out it is time to reline the clutch anyway.

Resolution to issue:
 

R&R clutch assembly, pedal engagement still too high. Replaced hydraulic master and slave cylinder. Clutch working like new.

Apparently the hydraulics failed and led to a premature clutch failure. Lesson to all - if your clutch starts feeling different, check you hydraulics before you end up with a more expensive repair..