Boiled the passenger battery
06-11-2010, 01:00 AM
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Boiled the passenger battery
While driving I noticed the “check Gauge” light came on on the instrument cluster. I looked at the volt gauge and it was between 14 and 18 volts. Then I noticed a funny smell coming from under the hood. Opened the hood and to my horror the passenger battery was steaming and belching acid. Drove it a little more then stopped at a gas station to hose off the mess. She started right up and the volt gauge dropped and kept dropping while driving till it hit just under 8V. By this time the radio turned off and the air bag light came on. I stopped and turned the truck off. Tried to start but no go. Had a guy jumped me (I made sure it was not a Dmax or Powerstoke) and she started right up and gauge back to normal just under 14V.
Took it to the dealer and they told me I had two bad batteries. I said fine I’ll change it myself. Bought two Optima yellow tops. I put them both on a charger just to make sure they are topped off before installing them. Installed the passenger side first and stated it. It started right up but while idling I noticed the fluid was coming out of the foam plug on top of the Optima. What is going on here? I thought Optima were gel and not liquid acid. Also why did it boil and so quickly? Is there something wrong with my charging system? What to do next?
Took it to the dealer and they told me I had two bad batteries. I said fine I’ll change it myself. Bought two Optima yellow tops. I put them both on a charger just to make sure they are topped off before installing them. Installed the passenger side first and stated it. It started right up but while idling I noticed the fluid was coming out of the foam plug on top of the Optima. What is going on here? I thought Optima were gel and not liquid acid. Also why did it boil and so quickly? Is there something wrong with my charging system? What to do next?
06-11-2010, 06:16 AM
#2
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Don't trust the meter on the dash. What was the voltage coming from the alternator? It almost sounds like there is a dead short on the battery to heat it up that fast.
06-11-2010, 10:39 AM
#3
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The passenger battery is being overcharged. Check the crossover + red wire going from the passenger battery to the drivers side battery. A bad connection or a bad cable will cause this. The reason why is because the ECM samples the voltage off the the drivers side battery and the alternator charges to the passenger battery and too the drivers battery via crossover cable. If it is low it ups the charging from the alternator, hence the overcharging.
Oh, you probably already know, don't run it around like this or you will cook the passenger battery again.
Oh, you probably already know, don't run it around like this or you will cook the passenger battery again.
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Coolrunning (06-13-2017)
06-11-2010, 07:14 PM
#6
From the 07 service manual
The charging system consists of:
*Generator
*Electronic Voltage Regulator (EVR) circuitry within the *Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Electronic Control *Module (ECM) for diesel engines.
*Ignition switch
*Battery (refer to 8, Battery for information)
*Battery temperature sensor
*Check Gauges Lamp (if equipped)
*Voltmeter (refer to 8, Instrument Panel and Gauges for information)
*Wiring harness and connections (refer to 8, Wiring Diagrams for information)
The Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS) is used only on the diesel engine. It is attached to the battery tray located under the battery.
The BTS is used to determine the battery temperature and control battery charging rate. This temperature data, along with data from monitored line voltage, is used by the PCM (ECM Diesel) to vary the battery charging rate. System voltage will be higher at colder temperatures and is gradually reduced at warmer temperatures.
The PCM sends 5 volts to the sensor and is grounded through the sensor return line. As temperature increases, resistance in the sensor decreases and the detection voltage at the PCM increases.
The BTS is also used for OBD II diagnostics. Certain faults and OBD II monitors are either enabled or disabled, depending upon BTS input (for example, disable purge and enable Leak Detection Pump (LDP) and O2 sensor heater tests). Most OBD II monitors are disabled below 20°F.
On diesel powered engines, the charging system is turned on and off with the ECM (Engine Control Module) and ignition switch with engine
The generator is driven by the engine through a serpentine belt and pulley, or a decoupler pulley arrangement.
The PCM, or ECM receives a voltage input from the generator (5) and also a battery voltage input (7) from the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module), it then compares the voltages to the desired voltage programed in the EVR (Electronic Voltage Regulator) software, and, if there is a difference it sends a signal to the generator EVR circuit to increase or decrease output. It uses a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) to send signals to the generator circuitry to control the amount of output from the generator. The amount of DC current produced by the generator is controlled by the EVR circuitry contained within the generator.
The Check Gauges Lamp (if equipped) monitors: charging system voltage, engine coolant temperature and engine oil pressure. If an extreme condition is indicated, the lamp will be illuminated. This is done as reminder to check the three gauges. The lamp is located on the instrument panel. Refer to the Instrument Cluster section for additional information.
Voltage is monitored at the B+ terminal stud to insure it is connected. If the B+ cable is loose, the PCM will shut down generator field. Because of this new feature, pin-2 of the field connector is internally connected to the B+ terminal.
The generator used with diesel engines is internally regulated. The generator and ECM communicate for diagnostics, etc. If the generator regulator becomes disconnected from the ECM, it will still operate, but in a default mode.
INSPECTION
The PCM (Powertrain Control Module), or ECM (Diesel) monitors critical input and output circuits of the charging system, making sure they are operational. A Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) is assigned to each input and output circuit monitored by the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system. Some charging system circuits are checked continuously, and some are checked only under certain conditions.
Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Codes in; Powertrain Control Module; Electronic Control Modules for more DTC information.
To perform a complete test of the charging system, use a diagnostic scan tool. Perform the following inspections before attaching the scan tool.
1. Inspect the battery condition. Refer to 8, Battery for procedures.
2. Inspect condition of battery cable terminals, battery posts, connections at engine block, starter solenoid and relay. They should be clean and tight. Repair as required.
3. Inspect all fuses in both the fuseblock and Power Distribution Center (PDC) for tightness in receptacles. They should be properly installed and tight. Repair or replace as required.
4. Inspect generator mounting bolts for tightness. Replace or tighten bolts if required. Refer to the Generator Removal/Installation section of this group for torque specifications.
5. Inspect generator drive belt condition and tension. Tighten or replace belt as required. Refer to Belt Tension Specifications in 7, Cooling System.
6. Inspect automatic belt tensioner (if equipped). Refer to 7, Cooling System for information.
7. Inspect generator electrical connections at generator field, battery output, and ground terminal (if equipped). Also check generator ground wire connection at engine (if equipped). They should all be clean and tight. Repair as required.
The problems that stand out in the above are, 1) any loose or corroded connection including ALL grounds to the body and engine block 2) battery that is not boiling is weak and needs more voltage causing the good, fully charged battery to boil 3) the BTS for the boiling battery is bad (it should sense the high battery temp) 4) the factory insulation battery blanket is missing or damaged not allowing the high battery temperature to be seen at thE BTS (a cold weather issue) (REMEMBER IT IS UNDER THE BATTERY AND HEAT RISES) 5) boiling battery has intenal short, fails load test. 6) batterys are different sizes, types, manufacturers (they all have different quality testing for the amp rating of battery). the batterys need to be the same, made at the same place, at the same time. Many auto parts stores in-house batterys are made by different manufacturers at different times of the year. low bid gets the sale. The way the truck is wired, the generator hot is connected to the passenger (auxiliary) battery. Then the aux bat hot is connected to the drivers (primary) battery hot. From the pri bat hot the ECM checks the voltage output of the generator. The positive (hot) wire from the generator to the aux bat, the wire from the aux bat to the pri bat, the multi wire battery post clamp on the pri bat, and the pri bat to starter wire, all have a high posibility of causing the over charging of the passenger side battery.
I have been using WD40 to keep all my grounds and battery posts corrosion free (been doing this when I had my first electrical problem in the late '70 on my '68 Charger). Spray everything 2 times a year (at least). I hope this is helpful to you.
Oh, by the way, I never got around to doing the WD40 on my wifes '08 Avenger
and it had to go to the dealer for electrical problems. Guess what! 
The car had a corroded ground wire. I need to get on the ball and clean and spray the grounds.
*Generator
*Electronic Voltage Regulator (EVR) circuitry within the *Powertrain Control Module (PCM). Electronic Control *Module (ECM) for diesel engines.
*Ignition switch
*Battery (refer to 8, Battery for information)
*Battery temperature sensor
*Check Gauges Lamp (if equipped)
*Voltmeter (refer to 8, Instrument Panel and Gauges for information)
*Wiring harness and connections (refer to 8, Wiring Diagrams for information)
The Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS) is used only on the diesel engine. It is attached to the battery tray located under the battery.
The BTS is used to determine the battery temperature and control battery charging rate. This temperature data, along with data from monitored line voltage, is used by the PCM (ECM Diesel) to vary the battery charging rate. System voltage will be higher at colder temperatures and is gradually reduced at warmer temperatures.
The PCM sends 5 volts to the sensor and is grounded through the sensor return line. As temperature increases, resistance in the sensor decreases and the detection voltage at the PCM increases.
The BTS is also used for OBD II diagnostics. Certain faults and OBD II monitors are either enabled or disabled, depending upon BTS input (for example, disable purge and enable Leak Detection Pump (LDP) and O2 sensor heater tests). Most OBD II monitors are disabled below 20°F.
On diesel powered engines, the charging system is turned on and off with the ECM (Engine Control Module) and ignition switch with engine
The generator is driven by the engine through a serpentine belt and pulley, or a decoupler pulley arrangement.
The PCM, or ECM receives a voltage input from the generator (5) and also a battery voltage input (7) from the TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module), it then compares the voltages to the desired voltage programed in the EVR (Electronic Voltage Regulator) software, and, if there is a difference it sends a signal to the generator EVR circuit to increase or decrease output. It uses a Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) to send signals to the generator circuitry to control the amount of output from the generator. The amount of DC current produced by the generator is controlled by the EVR circuitry contained within the generator.
The Check Gauges Lamp (if equipped) monitors: charging system voltage, engine coolant temperature and engine oil pressure. If an extreme condition is indicated, the lamp will be illuminated. This is done as reminder to check the three gauges. The lamp is located on the instrument panel. Refer to the Instrument Cluster section for additional information.
Voltage is monitored at the B+ terminal stud to insure it is connected. If the B+ cable is loose, the PCM will shut down generator field. Because of this new feature, pin-2 of the field connector is internally connected to the B+ terminal.
The generator used with diesel engines is internally regulated. The generator and ECM communicate for diagnostics, etc. If the generator regulator becomes disconnected from the ECM, it will still operate, but in a default mode.
INSPECTION
The PCM (Powertrain Control Module), or ECM (Diesel) monitors critical input and output circuits of the charging system, making sure they are operational. A Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) is assigned to each input and output circuit monitored by the On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system. Some charging system circuits are checked continuously, and some are checked only under certain conditions.
Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Codes in; Powertrain Control Module; Electronic Control Modules for more DTC information.
To perform a complete test of the charging system, use a diagnostic scan tool. Perform the following inspections before attaching the scan tool.
1. Inspect the battery condition. Refer to 8, Battery for procedures.
2. Inspect condition of battery cable terminals, battery posts, connections at engine block, starter solenoid and relay. They should be clean and tight. Repair as required.
3. Inspect all fuses in both the fuseblock and Power Distribution Center (PDC) for tightness in receptacles. They should be properly installed and tight. Repair or replace as required.
4. Inspect generator mounting bolts for tightness. Replace or tighten bolts if required. Refer to the Generator Removal/Installation section of this group for torque specifications.
5. Inspect generator drive belt condition and tension. Tighten or replace belt as required. Refer to Belt Tension Specifications in 7, Cooling System.
6. Inspect automatic belt tensioner (if equipped). Refer to 7, Cooling System for information.
7. Inspect generator electrical connections at generator field, battery output, and ground terminal (if equipped). Also check generator ground wire connection at engine (if equipped). They should all be clean and tight. Repair as required.
The problems that stand out in the above are, 1) any loose or corroded connection including ALL grounds to the body and engine block 2) battery that is not boiling is weak and needs more voltage causing the good, fully charged battery to boil 3) the BTS for the boiling battery is bad (it should sense the high battery temp) 4) the factory insulation battery blanket is missing or damaged not allowing the high battery temperature to be seen at thE BTS (a cold weather issue) (REMEMBER IT IS UNDER THE BATTERY AND HEAT RISES) 5) boiling battery has intenal short, fails load test. 6) batterys are different sizes, types, manufacturers (they all have different quality testing for the amp rating of battery). the batterys need to be the same, made at the same place, at the same time. Many auto parts stores in-house batterys are made by different manufacturers at different times of the year. low bid gets the sale. The way the truck is wired, the generator hot is connected to the passenger (auxiliary) battery. Then the aux bat hot is connected to the drivers (primary) battery hot. From the pri bat hot the ECM checks the voltage output of the generator. The positive (hot) wire from the generator to the aux bat, the wire from the aux bat to the pri bat, the multi wire battery post clamp on the pri bat, and the pri bat to starter wire, all have a high posibility of causing the over charging of the passenger side battery.
I have been using WD40 to keep all my grounds and battery posts corrosion free (been doing this when I had my first electrical problem in the late '70 on my '68 Charger). Spray everything 2 times a year (at least). I hope this is helpful to you.
Oh, by the way, I never got around to doing the WD40 on my wifes '08 Avenger
and it had to go to the dealer for electrical problems. Guess what! The car had a corroded ground wire. I need to get on the ball and clean and spray the grounds.
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Coolrunning (06-13-2017)
06-11-2010, 08:06 PM
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my 06 did that i cut the end off of the pos cable, cleaned the wires and put a new end. havent had any isses in the last 5 months. try that first
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06-11-2010, 10:39 PM
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Well this is what's going on right now. since I bought two yellow Optimas I replaced the passenger side first and that's when it boiled over within five minutes of idling. What 07 ThunderRoad metioned makes sense that the battery that is not boiling over is the bad one.
I had my 14 year old son cranked her up while I was under the hood (scary as I have a manual transmission) ready with my Fluke digital VOM. The battery that boiled over was reading 14.74V and the driver's side was at 14.54. Over 14V seems like a lot of power. When I had it on the bench charger it was only 13.2V. What is the max charging voltage? Tomorrow I check all the connection and will post results.
I had my 14 year old son cranked her up while I was under the hood (scary as I have a manual transmission) ready with my Fluke digital VOM. The battery that boiled over was reading 14.74V and the driver's side was at 14.54. Over 14V seems like a lot of power. When I had it on the bench charger it was only 13.2V. What is the max charging voltage? Tomorrow I check all the connection and will post results.
06-12-2010, 12:42 AM
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06-12-2010, 06:59 AM
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14.7 is not excessive right after a start since the batteries take a big drain when you start the truck. See what it is after 5 or 10 minutes. I know you said the battery started to foam after 5 minutes but at 14.7 it would take a lot longer to heat it up to boil.
Do you have access to an infrared temp gun to see what the battery temps are doing?
Do you have access to an infrared temp gun to see what the battery temps are doing?
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Coolrunning (06-13-2017)
06-12-2010, 09:13 AM
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14.7 just seems like a lot to me but then again I know nothing of battery charging system I do have a Raytek ST80 infrared temp gun and I'll try that today before and after I install the driver's side battery.
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Coolrunning (06-13-2017)
06-12-2010, 11:42 PM
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I had the same thing happen with my truck. Mine is under warranty. I had to get it towed to the dealer. If I remember right they said that it was a relay fuse or something.
Turned out to be a pretty quick fix.
Turned out to be a pretty quick fix.
