When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I installed a manual pressure guage so I could monitor the oil pressure on startup etc. It was installed into the top of the oil filter housing using a pretty typical 1/8 npt fitting. The fitting broke due to vibration I think.
Would have been better to just let it ride, but I had to have the info for some reason. Stupid tax being paid in full.
New Engine is Here...also post mordem on the old one
I had to pretty much disassemble the old engine to get it to rotate and get the trans off....
#5 piston was in pieces (Completely fried), all other looked ok, except some rubbing in #6 also.
Got me to thinking....did I loose the piston first, and have it suck all the oil up and burn it?? Or something like that?
Anyway, I did a bunch of research and built a homemade injector tester. I did the bottle jack route, used the old head and did some electronics and tig welding et voila:
It was a pretty cool project. Wish it was under better circumstances and less pressure!
Yesterday I completed the build. It wouldn't start. Great.
Tried swapping the CP3 with FCA. Lots of fun there..Had to make a cp3 gear puller to get it out. Learned a lot. Didn't drop the nut or washer thank god.
No change.
Tried swapping the rail pressure sensor.
No change.
Tried swapping the rail overpressure relief valve.
No change.
Then I decided to strip the sensor wire on the rail pressure guage and put a meter on it. Should have done that from the start probably. It was .5V key on engine off, and moved up to over 2.5V while rolling over. Ok, I got pressure. Now what. I know the injectors are good so....
Shot in the dark, tried changing out the crank position sensor. Bam it started. Never heard a sound so sweet. Almost was at wits end. Ok, was at wits end. Thanks god.
Ok, so the running report: As suggested, there is blue smoke at idle, and more when at part/full throttle. Kinda embarrassing actually. BUT, it goes away almost fully when the engine reaches operating temperature. I need to understand more fully what causes the blue smoke, as opposed to black smoke/white smoke...
I may try swapping nozzles or injectors to the old style to see if it will help. OR, I may try the old turbo.
Also, as reported, the newer style turbo, wastegate solenoid de-energized gives exactly 20psi of boost. I'll put 12V on it on the way home to see if I can achieve around 30psi as suggested.
Another update. Seesm the excessive smoke yesterday was just the engine clearing it's throat after sitting for years and also from all the testing I had done.
Today it started clean and ran clean all the way from cold to warm.
I have not moved the turbo up to 30psi yet. Will do soon.
I have ordered a egt and will install to see what is going on there. Haven't pulled with it yet of course.
Today makes me optimistic about the future for this project.
I also uploaded some engine install tips to Youtube. It's not an easy process to get the sucker in the truck and move it back so tight to the firewall.
2006 with 2006 injectors with 2003 ecm, stock programming. 2006 turbo used.
Chay
It's excellent that you go the engine installed and running.
In my experience, removing/installing the engine with the cylinder head removed is the easiest but I've seen folks lift the front of the cab about 6 inches and that worked well also.
I wouldn't run the engine much in it's current configuration. As previously discussed, the 2003 ECM injector programming is completely wrong for the 2006 pistons and injector nozzles.
As I mentioned, I would have installed the superior 2003-04 pistons and matching injector nozzles in your 2006 engine.
This would have made a really solid factory matched engine in your truck. You now have a mismatched set of components in your engine and truck.
A positive is that the 2004.5-07 Cummins cylinder heads are superior to the 2003-04 cylinder heads. The newer heads have better valves and valveseats.
The 2006 turbo is superior to the tiny 2003 turbo but will require mods.
Several companies (ATS for example) used to make a plug for the electronic wastegate port and then drill a hole in the turbo compressor to convert it to a mechanical wastegate.
The 2006 turbo will generate more boost than the 2003 turbo. This will most likely set DTC Overboost codes. A boost fooler adapter or custom ECM programming will correct this.
You will need a boost gauge to monitor the new turbo.
Hopefully the 2006 turbo came with the 4inch turbo exhaust elbow that you installed with a matching 4 inch downpipe and exhaust.
The only programmer that I know of that will program the 2003 ECM is the Smarty Touch. A custom ECM program with the Smarty Touch will get your engine running properly and reliably.
If I ever have my 2004.5 engine apart, the 2004.5 pistons and injector nozzles will be tossed and 2003-04 pistons and matching injector nozzles will be installed with custom ECM programming.
"I wouldn't run the engine much in it's current configuration. As previously discussed, the 2003 ECM injector programming is completely wrong for the 2006 pistons and injector nozzles."
Ok, according to my research (I will post tables soon) that's partly true. More to come. I actually don't think it's a big deal in the end. There will be a little more cylinder pressure (Head gasket stress) due to the timing advance.
I have done a bunch of learning about preinjection and main injection events and their uses. Also I closely compared the piston profiles (With the 2003 piston in hand) on the 2003 vs the 2004.5+ and spent a bunch of time reading about bombed trucks at another website. There are successes with both piston profiles running advanced timing. Also, the 2003 piston is re-entrant, but only barely so. There is not much of a lip (undercut) on the reentrant portion of the piston. Yeah it will induce and hold more swirly, but I wonder if it really burns that much differently than the open bowl, or whether the changes in timing etc had a lot more to do with emissions than the bowl type.
"The 2006 turbo is superior to the tiny 2003 turbo but will require mods. Several companies (ATS for example) used to make a plug for the electronic wastegate port and then drill a hole in the turbo compressor to convert it to a mechanical wastegate.
The 2006 turbo will generate more boost than the 2003 turbo. This will most likely set DTC Overboost codes. A boost fooler adapter or custom ECM programming will correct this."
Not true, at least with the stock 2006 setup. With the 2006 boost solenoid de-energized, the turbo wastegate spring is overcome by 20psi, and therefore that's all I can get out of it at present. I have read from multiple sources, that if I energize the solenoid with 12VDC, that the boost maximum will hit around 30psi, which is where the 2003 wastegate is set. I do have a boost guage installed already, and can verify that 30psi is the stock 2003 max. boost level. I suspect that if I crimped the boost line in addition to energizing the solenoid I could get more than 30psi, but it's not required for my power level. I do suspect because of the size of the compressor the air exiting the compressor will be cooler at a given psi and flow rate, which is always good.
"Hopefully the 2006 turbo came with the 4inch turbo exhaust elbow that you installed with a matching 4 inch downpipe and exhaust."
Both turbo outlets are 3", 2003 and 2004.5+. The difference in the 2004.5+ turbo is the intermediate pipe from the turbo output to the exhaust intake flange. On the 2004.5+ this expands to 4", and on the stock 2003 the exhaust remains a 3". This means all one has to do is use the stock 2003 intermediate pipe. Is this the 'elbow'? Anyway, I have an exhaust brake replacing this section, so I just reused it; it bolted up perfectly with the existing vbands.
My next steps are modifying the tone ring to reduce the timing a bit, and installing a EGT sensor, then moving the turbo to 30psi.
I entered the main timing tables for the 2003 and the 2006 into Excel, then did a series of compares.
The first is a straight up compare.
The second is with -3* of timing (2003).
The third is with -6* of timing (2003).
There are some spots on even the -6* map that are pretty advanced for sure. Will they cause an engine issue? It's really hard to determine. There is no doubt a tuner map would be better. I just wishit were a bit more affordable. $2000cdn to put it back to stock is pretty steep compared to what I'm used to. An equivalent in Honda runs about $800, and for GM it's $250...etc.
I did the timing ring mod. I moved it about 1 full tooth, or 6* retarded (Counter-clockwise as viewed from the front). So far, no issues with the ecm fighting between the crank and cam sensor. I can't really tell the difference; perhaps the turbo spools a little quicker.
I also connected the turbo solenoid to ignition +12V, and it produces about 29psi of boost max. It is very responsive.
The boost levels you are stating are off from my experience. What type of boost gauge do you have? Did you have a boost gauge prior to the engine failure?
When my 2004.5 Cummins was dead stock, my engine would do 32-33 PSI peak boost. If I disconnected the electronic wastegate on the turbo , I could spike 55 PSI.
A stock 2003-04 Dodge Cummins, with the smaller turbo, typically does 24-25 PSI boost.
I have had a mechanical Autometer boost gauge connected to the air horn since my truck was 6 months old back in 2004.
OBD II boost readings from the ECM are often erroneous.
It's an Autometer boost guage...pretty standard. It could be off by a few PSI who knows, but I have no reason not to believe it.
Yeah I've always had a boost guage. The 2003 has always hit 30-31psi. Maybe it was modified though, I haven't owned this vehicle since new. The guage is on the manifold, and the solenoid is on the turbo of course, so I'm reading a downstream regulated pressure which will change with different temperature drops across the intercooler. (slightly anyway). This could be a possible reason for the varying pressure accounts. The intercooler could only make the pressure lower though.
The 2004.4+, well it depends on how you disconnect it. If you pull the electrical connector it will for sure create lower boost, not higher. There is no way for it to create higher boost with the solenoid disconnected, as what it does is bleed off the boost signal from the mechanical wastegate as it is energized. This is a long standing technique for boost control used by many many vehicles (My turbo Integra has this type of scheme for 'boost by gear' torque management).
I'm about 99% sure that the boost path is: The boost from the turbo housing goes through the solenoid, then to a pneumatic actuator (mechanical dashpot wastegate). Without energization the boost is unmodified, and the pneumatic actuator spring is overcome by 20psi of boost. When energized, the solenoid bleeds boost from the signal, therefore 30psi in gives 20psi out, and the pneumatic actuator operates at what it thinks is 20psi, but is actually 30psi.
So, if you pull off the hose between the solenoid and the actuator you will get unregulated boost, but have a boost leak. So, most people who want unregulated boost will pinch the line.
So we are going back and forth but its an excellent discussion in my opinion. There is lots going on with your truck!
Your Autometer mechanical boost gauge and how it's installed sounds fine, but something is up.
Your boost gauge is likely fine but I would verify it somehow. Do you have a air compressor with a regulator and gauge? Can you temporarily try another boost gauge?
If your 2003 has always hit 30-31 PSI, something is not stock. Is your original turbo stock? Is the mechanical wastegate working or modified on it?
If your 2003 has hit 30-31 PSI, it should be setting overboost DTC's in the ECM. If not, then something else is modified.
I'm sure you would have noticed a boost fooler installed if there was one, so it likely does not have one.
That means that possibly the ECM program in your 2003 ECM could be aftermarket. Which means the ECM program likely has completely modified injector timing tables.
This is not uncommon when buying a used 3rd Gen Dodge Cummins. Everybody modifies these old trucks which are really dogs when they are stock.
So your current 2003 ECM programming is now in question. A trip to the Chrysler dealer to flash your ECM to verified stock would be recommended.
This takes about 15 minutes and is going to cost a few dollars.
This would verify your ECM programming is stock and eliminate that variable. Then your 2003 timing tables can be trusted.
02-20-2019, 11:29 AM
