Help me decide which Diesel to go with!
03-10-2007, 01:26 PM
#61
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Unlike the Achilles' heel of the 12v which can be forever eliminated with a simple, inexpensive tab or bolt, it seems that the odds of a VP44 failing on a 24v can at best be reduced but not eliminated and a FASS and fuel pressure montioring system are not exactly cheap.
While the electronic engine management/control systems of the 24v truck offer more convenience, they unfortunately do come without a hit in reliability.
03-10-2007, 02:08 PM
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Constant fuel supply & guage to monitor. You don't hear of many going out if those conditions are met. Common Q: What's the first thing I should do to my truck? Answer: get guages so you can at least monitor fuel pressure. Then upgrade your fuel system. That basic guage/upgrade question is asked weekly on every forum. You don't hear: My FASS or other monitored system has been working flawlessly & I just lost my vp.
03-10-2007, 11:01 PM
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your vp44 failed with aftermarket lift pump and good fuel pressure. but why did you change the old lift pump. was the stock one failing or not giving much fuel pressure becouse that could have damaged it before you changed it. maybe, maybe not. things break. and there are additives you can add to the ulsd to help lubricate the vp44. the person saying that he liked his 01.5 saying he didnt have to worry about a 53 block becouse they only had that untill early 2001. either truck is a good truck but just depends which you can find a good deal on. ya the 12v has a better pump but a 24v is more fuel efficent and has more power stock. my main reason for getting the year i got was i wanted opening backdoors ya you can get a 98 12v with opening back doors but that kinda narrows the search and i like that i have rear wheel disc brakes all though when i was looking i didnt know that the only started in 01.5
but once again both are good its really what you can find for the right price in the right shape
but once again both are good its really what you can find for the right price in the right shape
03-11-2007, 12:52 AM
#64
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you know guys...that is right about where i am at in this search.....which ever i can find....
after all that has come out from this discussion.....it seems to be a crap shoot...just like most other purchases.....somethings work well on one application and not good on the other...
i do like the idea of disc brakes throughout....it is just that DANG vp44 issue..that keeps me looking at pre 98....but there again...pre 98 has NONE of the comforts i want....short bed, 4 door, most are manual (not that i cant drive one, i just HATE them in traffic ridden BAY AREA highways) KDP issues but i guess that is a quick fix...etc....
what i boils down to is which i can find at the right price, mileage, and condition.....from there let the chips fall where they may...(although a 3000-4000 dollar chip...vp44 is an expinsive chip...lol)
NCA
03-11-2007, 01:29 PM
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your vp44 failed with aftermarket lift pump and good fuel pressure. but why did you change the old lift pump. was the stock one failing or not giving much fuel pressure becouse that could have damaged it before you changed it. maybe, maybe not. things break. and there are additives you can add to the ulsd to help lubricate the vp44. the person saying that he liked his 01.5 saying he didnt have to worry about a 53 block becouse they only had that untill early 2001. either truck is a good truck but just depends which you can find a good deal on. ya the 12v has a better pump but a 24v is more fuel efficent and has more power stock. my main reason for getting the year i got was i wanted opening backdoors ya you can get a 98 12v with opening back doors but that kinda narrows the search and i like that i have rear wheel disc brakes all though when i was looking i didnt know that the only started in 01.5
but once again both are good its really what you can find for the right price in the right shape
but once again both are good its really what you can find for the right price in the right shape
03-12-2007, 05:08 AM
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03-12-2007, 04:40 PM
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Nor_Cal_Angler, just buy which ever you want or feel is right for you.
as far as problems, dont fret to much about them. the 24v has the potentially problematic VP44 lift pump, where as the 12v doesnt. does that mean the 12v is better than the 24v? not in the least bit.
you can have a brand new VP44, all the fuel system mods possible, pusher pump, and additives, it can still crap out for no reason at all, with or with out warning.
yes, it does cost thousands to replace the pump, which would be money saved on a 12v. however on the other hand you can get a 100k 12v that has been very well maintained, a month later that engine could spin a bearing, throw a rod, drop a valve, wash the cylinder etc.. for no apparent reason at all. then you would still be in the same boat as the 24v guys, as it costs as much, if not more, to rebuild or replace the engine as it does to replace the VP44.
dont get a 12v just cause a hand full of people think its better than the 24v cause it doesnt have the injector pump issues.
there is a theory, "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". well for every mechanical problem you can have on a 24v you can have a problem on a 12v that can cost just as much.
sorry for the long post, just had to rant a little.
as far as problems, dont fret to much about them. the 24v has the potentially problematic VP44 lift pump, where as the 12v doesnt. does that mean the 12v is better than the 24v? not in the least bit.
you can have a brand new VP44, all the fuel system mods possible, pusher pump, and additives, it can still crap out for no reason at all, with or with out warning.
yes, it does cost thousands to replace the pump, which would be money saved on a 12v. however on the other hand you can get a 100k 12v that has been very well maintained, a month later that engine could spin a bearing, throw a rod, drop a valve, wash the cylinder etc.. for no apparent reason at all. then you would still be in the same boat as the 24v guys, as it costs as much, if not more, to rebuild or replace the engine as it does to replace the VP44.
dont get a 12v just cause a hand full of people think its better than the 24v cause it doesnt have the injector pump issues.
there is a theory, "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". well for every mechanical problem you can have on a 24v you can have a problem on a 12v that can cost just as much.
sorry for the long post, just had to rant a little.
03-12-2007, 04:57 PM
#68
But, you see people post daily about the vp44 and it's problems, I haven't seen anyone post about those other things you mentioned about the 12v. Just my observation, because a 24v could have those same things happen, on top of the vp44...
03-12-2007, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nor_Cal_Angler
most are manual (not that i cant drive one, i just HATE them in traffic ridden BAY AREA highways) KDP issues but i guess that is a quick fix...etc....
NCA
most are manual (not that i cant drive one, i just HATE them in traffic ridden BAY AREA highways) KDP issues but i guess that is a quick fix...etc....
NCA
I learned that the hard way.
If you find a truck you like with a 5spd., I'd go for it.
But, I'm sure this rebuild I'm getting done on my trans will make a world of a difference, but I just wish that the problem wouldn't have showed up in the first place. Box5, do I remember you saying that you were going to convert over to a 5spd? Keep us updated...
03-12-2007, 05:15 PM
#71
yea, i'm in the process of talking myself into and out of it, lol, if that makes sense. I'm trying to wiegh whether or not to wait until the auto lets go and I need a new trans, or do it now so I can recoupe some cash from selling the auto setup. I'll know by the end of this week whether or not I buy this 5spd setup I found. I know it will be worth it, just alittle unsure about if I should do it now or later.
03-12-2007, 05:19 PM
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i see what you are saying. what im trying to say is, just because you dont hear about major problems with the 12v as often as the VP44, does not mean that they cant happen. when they do happen they can be just as expensive to fix, which doesnt make the 12v any better than the 24v.
03-12-2007, 05:30 PM
#73
very true, i'd love to have a 24v, my price range was more 12v territory though...barely, lol, they were even alittle above my price range, but i'm really happy with what I got.
03-12-2007, 08:20 PM
#74
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Nor_Cal_Angler, just buy which ever you want or feel is right for you.
as far as problems, dont fret to much about them. the 24v has the potentially problematic VP44 lift pump, where as the 12v doesnt. does that mean the 12v is better than the 24v? not in the least bit.
you can have a brand new VP44, all the fuel system mods possible, pusher pump, and additives, it can still crap out for no reason at all, with or with out warning.
yes, it does cost thousands to replace the pump, which would be money saved on a 12v. however on the other hand you can get a 100k 12v that has been very well maintained, a month later that engine could spin a bearing, throw a rod, drop a valve, wash the cylinder etc.. for no apparent reason at all. then you would still be in the same boat as the 24v guys, as it costs as much, if not more, to rebuild or replace the engine as it does to replace the VP44.
dont get a 12v just cause a hand full of people think its better than the 24v cause it doesnt have the injector pump issues.
there is a theory, "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". well for every mechanical problem you can have on a 24v you can have a problem on a 12v that can cost just as much.
sorry for the long post, just had to rant a little.
as far as problems, dont fret to much about them. the 24v has the potentially problematic VP44 lift pump, where as the 12v doesnt. does that mean the 12v is better than the 24v? not in the least bit.
you can have a brand new VP44, all the fuel system mods possible, pusher pump, and additives, it can still crap out for no reason at all, with or with out warning.
yes, it does cost thousands to replace the pump, which would be money saved on a 12v. however on the other hand you can get a 100k 12v that has been very well maintained, a month later that engine could spin a bearing, throw a rod, drop a valve, wash the cylinder etc.. for no apparent reason at all. then you would still be in the same boat as the 24v guys, as it costs as much, if not more, to rebuild or replace the engine as it does to replace the VP44.
dont get a 12v just cause a hand full of people think its better than the 24v cause it doesnt have the injector pump issues.
there is a theory, "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". well for every mechanical problem you can have on a 24v you can have a problem on a 12v that can cost just as much.
sorry for the long post, just had to rant a little.
i see what you are saying. what im trying to say is, just because you dont hear about major problems with the 12v as often as the VP44, does not mean that they cant happen. when they do happen they can be just as expensive to fix, which doesnt make the 12v any better than the 24v.
Get real. The odds of any 100k Cummins dropping valves, washing cylinders, spinning bearings or whatever compared to a VP44 crapping out are infinitesimal.
If 12v engines were experiencing those problems to any substantial degree, we WOULD be hearing about them.
The Cummins long block is easily a 4-500,000 mile motor.
The P-7100 injection pump routinely lasts 4-500,000 miles.
The VP44? Well read the 24v forum for yourselves.
A large number of 24v trucks are also afflicted with the notorious "53" blocks.
The 24v trucks are not junk be any means, but they certainly are afflicted by more problems than the 12v ones.
Yes, I would say that that 12v is the better motor of the two and I know that I am far from alone in that opinion.
I would have skipped the 2nd Gen 24v trucks altogether in favor of a HPCR 3rd Gen had I wanted a newer truck.
03-12-2007, 09:24 PM
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I think it boils down to a good deal. If a person can save enough to realize they may have to buy a vp44 reman at some point then enjoy easy power and creature comforts. I suppose I would buy a 12v if I found one taken care of with less then 150k. Its the deal and knowing a good one when you see it. 