Help me decide which Diesel to go with!
03-07-2007, 07:50 PM
#16
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I would go with a 12 valve if your not going to be towing really heavy, great mileage (22 with mine empty) very reliable and like any cummins will run a long, long time. I thought about going with a 24V truck but the price of replacing the VP44 scares me, why take the chance. You can find really nice 12V trucks for reasonable prices.
03-07-2007, 08:08 PM
#17
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never had any issues with the lift pump. (*knocks on wood so it doesnt go out tomorrow
*) unless the prior owner replaced it already. And you say valve adjustments at 90k. Im not sure about the others but IIRC the cummins doesnt need it until 150k....lets see here I'll check the handy dandy auto program I have here.......oh it says 135k 
either way its more than 90k for a cummins at least 
Ford seems to be having lots of issues lately so if its not a 7.3 powerstroke Id walk away...no better yet I'd run!
*) unless the prior owner replaced it already. And you say valve adjustments at 90k. Im not sure about the others but IIRC the cummins doesnt need it until 150k....lets see here I'll check the handy dandy auto program I have here.......oh it says 135k either way its more than 90k for a cummins at least Ford seems to be having lots of issues lately so if its not a 7.3 powerstroke Id walk away...no better yet I'd run!but 3 local dodge shops both mechanics, and service advisors said they dont recommend the cummins service schedual...they go with a 90k adj...that is why i said 90k....
so i your minds what gives...why 150k with the actual maker of the motor and 90k with the seller of the truck...
the obvious jumps out right away...with a 90k they get twice the money 1 at 90 and the next at 180.....when cummins says 150 and not again till 300....
well....i guess i might want to do a little homework on the 12V i was pretty much set on the 24V...but things are making sense that a 12v might suit me better....
come on 24v guys convince me other ways.....btw which motor is the one that makes that very distinguishing sound of clack,clack,clack...diesel power....is it the 24v or 12v.....you know the sound that makes the hair stand up on the back of you neck....(not that, that noise is going to convince me to buy that engine...lol)
NCA
03-07-2007, 08:54 PM
#18
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the 24v engines come stock with more power than the 12v engines and if you get a 24v just put a fuel pressure gauge in it and there are many options for upgrading the lift pump and maybe larger fuel lines.even a low fuel pressur light will help let you know if your lift pump quits so you dont drive it around making the vp44 do all the work. there are many different preformance upgrades for the 24v like chips and intakes exhast all kinds of things that arnt to pricy or hard to do. the vp44 is an electronic pump and the 12 valves use a mechanical one as far as i know. and from what ive heard and read about the automatic transmissions is that if you put a stronger torque converter in them they are pretty strong and if also read that putting in a better valve body alos helps them. but i think that only really matters if your going to put lots of power upgrades on. as far as i know my tranny is stock and it shifts strong and works great. also my truck has 383,000 miles on it and its still going strong. my truck also is getting 18.5 mpg with winter fuel and 4.10 gears just driving around some city some highway. i think the 53 blocks were only made up till the start of 2001 so if you get a 2001.5 you should be safe. if your looking at the truck i think there is a 52 cast on the engine on the drivers side near the front botom somewhere not completly sure but just take a look for the number. also if you get a 2001.5 or up you get rear disc brakes.. and if your wanting opening back doors you'd want a 1998 and up and thats also when the changed the dash
03-07-2007, 09:39 PM
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I've been reading all the replies like you have, and even after what I said about going gas I will say the 2001.5 is a nice working truck. Something else a member told me here a year ago was that most times you only hear from the guys that are having the trouble and the guys that are running around with fine working trucks don't say much. You know the squeaky wheel thing. There are problems with our trucks( 2nd gen.) and the newer and older ones too. I look on some sites that deal with Ford and GM's and they have issues as well. If vehicles didn't have troubles mechanics would be unemployed, and 1 problem on one truck doesn't always mean trouble on all. Its good to get the info but like I was told "don't beat yourself up reading about all the problems" because if you do you won't enjoy the truck.
I hope what I wrote makes since, sometimes when people are having problems its not always the trucks fault.
Example for argument sake: A guy has got loaded with a tank of bad fuel and ruins the injector pump, not knowing the fuel was the problem. Then he says about how all pumps are bad. Well sometimes its a problem that was caused by something else. I don't know I guess what worries me is I think parts for our trucks may be more expensive than parts for a 1/2 ton Gasser and I don't need a truck that heavy, but again it sure is nice to hear the rattle with both windows cranked down even on a cold day when you have the heater cranked and the temperature is in the single digits. "It's a diesel thing, you wouldn't understand" I think is how it goes. Or maybe"real trucks rattle". My 01.5 rattles real nice!!
I hope what I wrote makes since, sometimes when people are having problems its not always the trucks fault.
Example for argument sake: A guy has got loaded with a tank of bad fuel and ruins the injector pump, not knowing the fuel was the problem. Then he says about how all pumps are bad. Well sometimes its a problem that was caused by something else. I don't know I guess what worries me is I think parts for our trucks may be more expensive than parts for a 1/2 ton Gasser and I don't need a truck that heavy, but again it sure is nice to hear the rattle with both windows cranked down even on a cold day when you have the heater cranked and the temperature is in the single digits. "It's a diesel thing, you wouldn't understand" I think is how it goes. Or maybe"real trucks rattle". My 01.5 rattles real nice!!
Last edited by old 300; 03-07-2007 at 09:42 PM. Reason: spelling
03-07-2007, 09:53 PM
#20
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Ill second the 24v's. Been going on four years and has never once let me sit. I love my truck and I like the newer interior and the quad cab doors. Gotta remember, its just a truck, and at some point, no matter how much you baby it, theres that one moron that cant stop at stop signs and end up totaling your car! (Ask me how I know) Buy what you can afford and what you like. Be happy you can actually afford it too! Enjoy.
theres my .02
theres my .02
03-07-2007, 10:02 PM
#21
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FWIW-
I have had a 24v, and now drive a 12v. I greatly prefer the feel of driving the 12v. (Primarily the throttle response) I agree with Rick's post on the 12v (Txdiesel007)
Do you still have questions about the 53 block? Check this page out-http://www.stamey.info/Truck/Cummins53BlockFAQ.htm
Also, if you want a short bed, the 98 was the only 12v to have them.
I have had a 24v, and now drive a 12v. I greatly prefer the feel of driving the 12v. (Primarily the throttle response) I agree with Rick's post on the 12v (Txdiesel007)
Do you still have questions about the 53 block? Check this page out-http://www.stamey.info/Truck/Cummins53BlockFAQ.htm
Also, if you want a short bed, the 98 was the only 12v to have them.
03-07-2007, 10:05 PM
#22
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Well he goes; I think after owning 1 diesel and driving them for years I would say go gas. I know you guys are probably thinking "what a nut" but that's my opinion. You are going to pay a lot more money to buy the truck, new or used. The other thing is if you buy a good gas truck and look after it you will get a few hundred thousand miles out of it. And if you need a motor job it will cost you way less.
Maintenance cost alone the 5.9 takes what 10-12 quarts of oil, a fuel filter that can cost 10's of $ and the same goes with the air filter. Get a v-8 chev or whatever and the cost is cut to about 40%. I know a guy with a v-10 ford and another that has a 6 litre chev. They work great and will go just as far $ for $ . I own a 01.5 5.9 and love it. That being said A buddy was driving from P.E.I. to New Brunswick Canada on the 13 km long bridge when the truck died. A quick tow to the dealer and a lift pump and vp-44, the bill came to $5000.00. Another buddy has an 02 that the trans. took a dump and that was another $6000.00. That's Canadian $$$ but that is what will be coming out of my pocket and it just doesn't seem worth it. I think my next will be something small enough that I could put on the back of the old Dodge. Anyway that being said I just think unless you are going to be driving many miles a year or towing heavy loads all the time, why spend the extra money to get a diesel.
I prices a new ford power stroke the other day and the diesel option was $8900.00 and then $1900.00 for the transmission that goes with.
Maintenance cost alone the 5.9 takes what 10-12 quarts of oil, a fuel filter that can cost 10's of $ and the same goes with the air filter. Get a v-8 chev or whatever and the cost is cut to about 40%. I know a guy with a v-10 ford and another that has a 6 litre chev. They work great and will go just as far $ for $ . I own a 01.5 5.9 and love it. That being said A buddy was driving from P.E.I. to New Brunswick Canada on the 13 km long bridge when the truck died. A quick tow to the dealer and a lift pump and vp-44, the bill came to $5000.00. Another buddy has an 02 that the trans. took a dump and that was another $6000.00. That's Canadian $$$ but that is what will be coming out of my pocket and it just doesn't seem worth it. I think my next will be something small enough that I could put on the back of the old Dodge. Anyway that being said I just think unless you are going to be driving many miles a year or towing heavy loads all the time, why spend the extra money to get a diesel.
I prices a new ford power stroke the other day and the diesel option was $8900.00 and then $1900.00 for the transmission that goes with.
You are right as long as you do not want to do any towing. A gas truck will not pull like a diesel or last as long. Also if you are buying a gas dodge the fuel mileage is horrible and the transmissions are still junk.
03-07-2007, 10:25 PM
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All this talk about 12 valves. I have to stand up for the 24 valves. I have had my truck for 8 years and have worked it very hard, often using it like a tractor in very rough construction sites. It has served my very well and I could not ask for a better truck. Its only broke down on me once in the 8 years that I have owned it.
03-07-2007, 10:32 PM
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your the frist person to bring the 150k valve adj. up.....before i posted this...like i said i had done some of my own research...and i KNOW FOR A FACT your not LIEING.....cummins web site and speaking with them directly told me that 150k is when you do the valve adj....
but 3 local dodge shops both mechanics, and service advisors said they dont recommend the cummins service schedual...they go with a 90k adj...that is why i said 90k....
so i your minds what gives...why 150k with the actual maker of the motor and 90k with the seller of the truck...
the obvious jumps out right away...with a 90k they get twice the money 1 at 90 and the next at 180.....when cummins says 150 and not again till 300....
well....i guess i might want to do a little homework on the 12V i was pretty much set on the 24V...but things are making sense that a 12v might suit me better....
come on 24v guys convince me other ways.....btw which motor is the one that makes that very distinguishing sound of clack,clack,clack...diesel power....is it the 24v or 12v.....you know the sound that makes the hair stand up on the back of you neck....(not that, that noise is going to convince me to buy that engine...lol)
NCA
but 3 local dodge shops both mechanics, and service advisors said they dont recommend the cummins service schedual...they go with a 90k adj...that is why i said 90k....
so i your minds what gives...why 150k with the actual maker of the motor and 90k with the seller of the truck...
the obvious jumps out right away...with a 90k they get twice the money 1 at 90 and the next at 180.....when cummins says 150 and not again till 300....
well....i guess i might want to do a little homework on the 12V i was pretty much set on the 24V...but things are making sense that a 12v might suit me better....
come on 24v guys convince me other ways.....btw which motor is the one that makes that very distinguishing sound of clack,clack,clack...diesel power....is it the 24v or 12v.....you know the sound that makes the hair stand up on the back of you neck....(not that, that noise is going to convince me to buy that engine...lol)
NCA
If your staying stock the 24 valve will run circles around a 12 valve! The 24 valve is easy to chip! can you install a radio? The vp44s do fail but so do other electric items. Most vp's go well over 100k. If you get a diesel you'll never want a gasser again! The newer trucks have more modern looking interior. 24 valve start easier and smoke less. If you're afraid of electronics, better turn the pc off.
03-07-2007, 10:33 PM
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Speaking as a 24v owner, I'd look for a 12v first. That being said, the 24v is still a great motor. Mine has only let me down once, and that was when the injection pump died. The mechanical pump in the 12v's will go forever and a day, and my favourite part, you don't need a code scanner to be able to work on it. And mild power out of a 12v is gonna be cheaper (free), whereas the 24v, you're gonna have to spend something on it. Some time and tools with the 12v, and you can have a rocking truck. Theres gonna be quirks to every truck, be it a 12v or a 24v. Just something to get used to. Check it out thoroughly before buying, don't want to dump a load of cash in it right after you buy it.
03-07-2007, 10:44 PM
#26
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Old 300 - I can see your point regarding gas. But the lower cost upfront is also the sore, sticking point of one later on as well. When one drives their gas 3/4 ton for 5 years and finds out it's worth $10 whereas the diesel rig is still worth $2500 (just a little example - resale on the major diesels except the 6.0h-no are terriffic.)
now - being a HD truck, other parts cost more too, like front brake rotors from Carquest @ 129.95 EACH. Compare that with $39.95 for a 1/2 ton truck. And $75 oil changes, $2000 for a complete set of ball joints with and alignment, and $750 for a set of stock-size load range E tires.
I guess I used to do quite a bit better economically than my gas-driving friends until the price of diesel went up. Now, it's almost a wash. But resale, and the pleasure of driving it still keep me on this side.
Here's one saying the 12V is a great, reliable engine/truck combination.
now - being a HD truck, other parts cost more too, like front brake rotors from Carquest @ 129.95 EACH. Compare that with $39.95 for a 1/2 ton truck. And $75 oil changes, $2000 for a complete set of ball joints with and alignment, and $750 for a set of stock-size load range E tires.
I guess I used to do quite a bit better economically than my gas-driving friends until the price of diesel went up. Now, it's almost a wash. But resale, and the pleasure of driving it still keep me on this side.
Here's one saying the 12V is a great, reliable engine/truck combination.
03-07-2007, 11:04 PM
#27
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woooooooow!!!!!!!!
this is what i am talking about....some very good info...thanks again.
it seems my research will need to continue....i was almost dead set on the
24v but i may want to pay attention to the 12V as well....
all of you have been wonderful......thanks for not shutting out the NEWBIE....i will keep all of this in mind as my search cont.
and yes i DO understand that with every bad apple there is at least a dozen good apples....hows that for the glass half full!!!!...lol
so like i said...BIG power is not my goal...so upgrades and kits, and chips arnt a concern....maybe and exaust and intake mod....but other than that not to concerned....after that it seems that it could be a matter of which i perfer....and it seems like a 98 in the 12 v (because i do want a x-cab and short box) or 01.5 on the 24v...and if i see this correct 01.5 is production on or after july...
thanks and i hate to wear on you all but i am sure i will have more questions as the search narrows down.
NCA
this is what i am talking about....some very good info...thanks again.
it seems my research will need to continue....i was almost dead set on the
24v but i may want to pay attention to the 12V as well....
all of you have been wonderful......thanks for not shutting out the NEWBIE....i will keep all of this in mind as my search cont.
and yes i DO understand that with every bad apple there is at least a dozen good apples....hows that for the glass half full!!!!...lol
so like i said...BIG power is not my goal...so upgrades and kits, and chips arnt a concern....maybe and exaust and intake mod....but other than that not to concerned....after that it seems that it could be a matter of which i perfer....and it seems like a 98 in the 12 v (because i do want a x-cab and short box) or 01.5 on the 24v...and if i see this correct 01.5 is production on or after july...
thanks and i hate to wear on you all but i am sure i will have more questions as the search narrows down.
NCA
03-07-2007, 11:07 PM
#28
But let's settle the score, Cummins 12v or 24v are both great engines, u'd be really happy with either one. You should drive a few of both and make a decision off that, and what kind of deals you find. If you find a good 94-98 12v for $8500 +/-, i'd go for it in a heartbeat.
the 12v is the more clicky clackity sounding motor from all the ones i've heard compared to others, it sounds so good! Especially if your in another car and one pulls up next to you with the turbo humming and it coming to a idle with a nice exhaust, and actually with the hood closed it doesn't sound so clicky, it's a great diesel sound, i just let it idle in my driveway somtimes :-D
the 12v is the more clicky clackity sounding motor from all the ones i've heard compared to others, it sounds so good! Especially if your in another car and one pulls up next to you with the turbo humming and it coming to a idle with a nice exhaust, and actually with the hood closed it doesn't sound so clicky, it's a great diesel sound, i just let it idle in my driveway somtimes :-D
03-07-2007, 11:15 PM
#29
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well they are all great trucks but also keep in mind that those 12valve trucks have been around a lot longer. The motors themselves will be fine but when you are looking at trucks that are 10 years old thats about the time that all kinds of other normal parts start to break and deteriorate. Alternators, batteries, and depending how previous owners maintained the trucks you can find yourself replacing Transfer cases, gears, bearings, and other stuff. If you do your own work on it and enjoy tackling tasks like that then all that stuff doesnt cost a lot of money but if you arent mechanically inclined I'd say the newer the better. Just some more considerations
03-07-2007, 11:24 PM
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