sunsurf

I've taken my Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 LB in to four different shops to find out why a) steering wheel does not return to center b) 40-60 mph very difficult to keep going straigt; need to make constant micro-adjustments to go straight.

Was this way before I replaced tires and aligned it. Still that way now.

Dealer said tie rods and center link (pitman arm to steering gear joint) needed to be replaced. At the time, center link was all that was in stock. I was assured it was 80% problem. I agreed to install and it changed nothing except put a $400 hole in my wallet.

Another mechanic said it was simply the steering gear.

Another mechanic said he's replaced those time and again on same trucks and they keep going bad after 6 months. His advice is to sell before I waste more money.

I discovered that caster was roughly 0 deg on both sides. My understanding is more caster means better return to center. But also told that 1/2 deg is all you can adjust on these 4x4's. But I'm well below 2.8 spec so where did all my caster go? Looking now into supension arms and wondering if bushings might be problem. They don't look unusually worn or cracked from outside but no telling what they look like in.

Power steering pump seems to be doing it's job. Wheel is easy to turn. But there is a bit of vibration that occurs when maneuvering at low speeds in parking lot and driveways. It's momentary, not long lasting, and usually between 9 and 3 positions, not at extreme ends.

I can't understand why four different mechanics, a dealer no less being one, cannot tell me with certainty what is going on. And everyone seems to want to tackle it in different ways.

Please, any advice or personal experience would be helpful.

Regards,
Andrew

Dodge RAM 6-spd LB 4x4 no lift or suspension mods

RickCJ

You need to have all worn parts, not 80%, replaced before you get it aligned! This includeds the steering box, bushings, etc... if its worn. It never should of left the alignment shop till caster was correct. Sagging springs, worn bushings,something bent will cause this. Offset balljoints and adjustable control arms will cure this.

If your steering wheel vibrates when you turn it something is wrong! Pump or steering box.

Your front end parts are either tight or worn out this isn't rocket science. Find a good mechanic!

Hard to find a good tech at a dealership, if they're any good they will have their own shop!

kawi600

I second on that. For wander, you need a steering box brace like the DSS. Youll need to check ALL the ball joints up front including the steering linkage. Dont be afraid to gut them all and use lukes links.
You may also want to make sure you dont have a 4 turn steering box as those require more wheel travel to make a correction, which makes the wander seem worse.
If you intend on doing anything with lift or a new trackbar, you might want to do that before the alignment.

sunsurf

Thanks kawi600 and RickCJ for your input. When it left the alignment shop I walked out with a handy computer print out showing specs before and after and wouldn't you know I had close to manufacturer specs on the way in and out. Trouble is, after 600 miles on new tires and alignment I was getting really bad wear on inside of front tires; high-low spots, feathering.

That's what led me to drop in on Desert Dodge in Las Vegas to cure the ills before I ruined my new tires. I was also after fixing the driveability, but not sure if all were related. Dealer said it was center link and tie rods causing both wear and wander. We were just beginning 2,500 mile journey and I was eager to fix the issue so I agreed to do what they could that day--center link.

As soon as I got back on the freeway I knew the driveability was not improved at all but hoped the wear was solved. Didn't take but a few hundred more miles to know tires were still wearing irregularly. Durango mechanic said it was alignment (wear) pure and simple. They did it old school and sure enough I was towed out 1.25 inches! That's when I got suspicious about the computerized alignments close to spec results.

Back home, my mechanic measured caster and said I was at or around 0 on both (the computerized alignment said i was closer to 2.6). My mechanic checked to make sure the ball joints weren't locked up, bearings were tight, etc. Said there is some play in track bar and tie rods but not so much I would need to do anything about it just yet, and not so much that it would be causing my left and right movement at speeds. And no one has noticed that there would be anything bent.

I'm told you can't get but .5 degrees of caster adjusted on these 4x4 front ends. But I'm at 0 and I should be at 2.8 or so... how could I have lost that much? How can I get it back?

RickCJ

Did you get the toe set??? That will make it wander.
Wonder which one it is 0* or 2.6* If the caster is out that far something is bent or the 0* is wrong just like the 1.25" toe out was.

Why didn't either shop fix it?


4WD Alignment Specification Changes
From a Babcox publishing article Keep Vehicle Use in Mind When Aligning Light Trucks & SUVs in the October 2001 issue of Brake & Front End :

1994-and-up Dodge 1500 4X4 pickups have a tendency to drift to the right. Aftermarket offset joints are available for this application that provide 1/2 to 2 degrees of caster/camber correction.
From On the 1994-and-newer Dodge Ram two-wheel drive trucks (except the 3500 Cab Chassis), camber/caster corrections are made using the slotted pivot bar on the upper control arms. On the 4WD trucks, camber is preset at the factory. On the Dana 60 axle, the ball joints have a zero degree steel bushing, but on the Dana 44 axles there is no bushing. Though Dodge says no camber adjustment is available on either the Dana 44 or Dana 60 front axles, there are aftermarket offset bushings for the Dana 60 axle and offset ball joints for the Dana 44 axle. Caster adjustments are provided, though, by a cam at the front of the lower suspension arm.

From Brent - ASE Certified, Gold Certified Chrysler tech.
(This tidbit has been posted to numerous mail lists and message boards)

Specifications (my personal settings for every Ram I align):
Setting Left Wheel Right Wheel
Caster 3.2° 3.5°
Camber -0.10° -0.10°
Cross Caster -0.3°
Cross Camber 0.0°
Toe Standard specs, (maybe a little out if you tow a lot, they will pull in as the front end lifts up).

Discussion:

In a previous posting, people were complaining about a shimmy in their Ram 4x4 after striking bumps in the road. I suggested that the front end alignment has either too little or too much caster, thus causing a caster shimmy. He did not like my response and changed his concern from a "shimmy" to a "bounce" (big difference), and insisted it was the shocks. Maybe it is, I haven't driven it. He also said the alignment "checked out". Here's the problem: Alignment programs (and service manuals I believe), give a wide acceptable range for front caster on the 4x4 Rams. I believe the range is 2 degrees to 5 degrees (if that's not correct, it's pretty close). The problem occurs when the alignment tech (independent or dealer) tells you that the measurements "checked out fine", just because they were in this broad range of acceptance.

Caster readings that fall on either end of the scale are subject to caster shimmy, even though they are "acceptable". I had to align some 30 trucks and attend a 9 hour "Dodge Ram Chassis Dynamics Diagnostics" training session (fancy name, ehh?), before finding out that 3 degrees to 4 degrees is the optimal caster setting for 4x4 Rams that eliminates caster shimmy.

Above are the specifications I set Ram trucks to. First I want to give a little more info on correct Ram alignments so you can see if you had a job well done, The eccentrics on the lower control arms ARE NOT for individual wheel caster adjustments (even though our alignment machine says they are). The eccentric sleeves in the upper ball joints are for adjusting individual camber and total cross caster (difference in caster between two front wheels). This is why replacement eccentrics are positionable in eight different ways.

Once camber and cross caster are attained with the eccentrics, the lower control arm eccentrics are then used to swing the caster readings into specifications. The two eccentrics must be swung in the SAME direction in EQUAL amounts. If they are not, it will create a setback condition (one front wheel further forward than the other). FYI - Comparing between the two front wheels, caster will cause a pull to the smaller value and camber will cause a pull to the larger value. A truck set up with caster pulling in one direction and camber pulling in the other direction, can lead to a wandering truck; even though it is "in specifications"!!!!!!

If the eccentrics on the lower control arms of your truck are not pointing the same direction, the alignment was done incorrectly and the axle was "twisted" or "forced" into position to attain the acceptable values (seen them from the factory this way, go figure). A correct alignment will set the truck up with a slight negative cross caster (truck has slight pull to left) to compensate for right hand road crown. Camber will be equal side to side slightly on the negative side. This will help maintain acceptable camber when hauling heavy loads, as the truck tends to lift in the front when towing. Camber will then fall slightly positive when towing.

Just because the alignment shop says "it's in specifications", that does not mean it is set up for proper performance and handling!!!!!!!!!

foolkiller

sounds to me like your control arm bushings are worn out.

if not....

i set my own caster based solely on how the truck is behaving. i don't even measure it. my tires are wearing very nicely. it's adjusted at the forward end of the bottom of each control arm. you're looking for a cam adjustment. when you find it you'll see what to do. it's a solid axle truck so i recommend you adjust them to the same setting.

for the life of me i can't remember if more caster or less caster increases return to center but it's an easy adjustment to fiddle with to learn for yourself.

i highly recommend you take it easy after adjusting it, particularly if you have worn parts, as you could introduce the dreaded "death wobble"

this and the toe-in are easy things to learn and deal with yourself to save some $$$$$

good luck, j

sunsurf

RickCJ,

Thanks for that repost. I'll inspect the eccentrics a little more. The very first computerized alignment said my toe was -0.10 L and .25 R. Next guy noticed (correctly) I was actually 1.25" out and fixed the wear with his alignment. When I got home to my mechanic, he inspected caster with his bubble tool and demonstrated I was closer to 0 deg on both sides than 2.6/2.9 that computerized alignment claimed I left the shop with. He also measured my toe and said i was 1/16 out at the moment. He then asked me where the shop was located and went on about how old school mechanics have their own set of numbers they spec based on location and type of roads (country vs city).

He says he'll look into introducing caster middle of the week. He was looking at the bushings in the lower suspension arm--foolkiller, is this what you are referring to as "control arm" bushing? When he backed it off the ramp he engaged the brakes to create several lunges and told me to inspect the movement in the bushings--there was none. He said that might be so but the bushings could still have mutated and remain off-center possibly. His intention is to inspect bushing from inside next. We were looking into off-set ball joints that introduce caster but those are only made for 1500.

foolkiller

yes, "control arm" and "suspension arm" are probably the same...

i'm starting to think you're referring to camber as opposed to caster..... at least thats what most folks buy the offset ball joints for. i guess they'd work for caster as well but i think you'd be chasing your tail by then having a problem with camber.

i'd stick with the eccentrics on the control arms for adjusting caster and if you're having a problem with camber, then look into the offset ball joints.

there is the possibility your ball joints are worn... then i'd just get some good standard (no offset) ball joints as there's no way to know for sure if you need offset ones if your current ones are bad. (chasing tail again).

also, i can't believe no one caught this yet, but the most common reason for wander in the 2nd gen trucks is the upper track bar connection being worn and it is an easy fix. would not account for incorrect caster camber though.

and also, worn wheel bearings could make caster and camber measures inconsistent and be along with some of your other symptoms. you really need a mech that you trust with this.

where are you located??

i don't know that i'm helping you much, hopefully someone will chime in and correct me if need be.

j

dozer12216

Caster affects returnability. Negative caster improves returnability and increases likely hood of death wobble. Positive caster recuces tendency for death wobble but hurts returnability. Generally most have to run positive caster on 4WD's. With condition of joints, tie rods, steering gear, link bushings, ect maybe bad, I am at loss to figure. The other problem is Alignment guys have their own way of doing things and don't follow procedures and are satisfied with "in the green". It is mandantory to follow a procedure.
The correct would be confirm/adjust as possible the caster and camber( not adjustable in this instance). Then with engine running get steering wheel to centered position and steerging gear must be in middle of it's travel or on center if you will. Now adjust right toe to very slight toe in 1/64. Now adjust with cross link the left toe to same amount of toe in. 1/16 of total toe in will frequentlly cause wear on outside and cupping. This is especially true with wide tires or incorrect wheel offsets. Camber can have affect on toe required to compensate. Offset joints should only be considered with .5 degree varation on caster or camber between sides.
A typical adjustment might be somelike this: toe .01 or less each side but not toed out. Caster of 4.5 positive with cross caster of .25 degrees allowed.
Camber should be positive of .2 with cross varation not to exceed .25deg. A frame shop is frequentlly a good place to get a 4WD alsigned.

Go Fast

I am experiencing a similair problem as Sunsurf. Did you ever find the solution? I have a quad cab long bed 2006 Dodge ram 4x4 3500 single rear axel with no lift. I brough my truck into the dealer because of a noise coming from the hydro boost unit when you turn the steering. I also have a very slight clunk that I could feel in the steering wheel or brake pedal when I drove over a bump. The dealer told me I needed to replace an internally colapsed power steering hose. I ws told the clunk was from a slightly worn out tie rod end. I was told about a steering bar update kit. Two days later they called up and said I also needed to replace the hydro boost unit. After all this work I picked up my truck and handles terrible above 50 mph. The steering will not return to center. It is very difficult to make go straight you have to constantly make small adjustments. If the truck gets off track and you make an steering adjustment it feels like to truck is going to roll. I had no steering issues at all. The dealership has since replaced the steering gear box and reinstalled the original steering links. The problem is still there. Any ideas? Sunsurf did you every fix your truck?

Junk Man

I spent the last 50,000 mi with poor steering. All techs & parts suppliers blamed something else.

I had 4 bad AGR boxes and 1 bad A1-Cardone box + the original that was on the truck when I bought it.

It now steers beautifully. Not returning to center is either too much caster or a tight or bad box. I am running ~ 3* caster and it tracks straight and returns to center.

For good steering, make sure your parts are good. I ended up with Thuren track bar (it is a good piece of equipment but not necessarily required), Moog ball joints & 1 tie rod that was bad, RockSolid bushing, Borgeson stering shaft and Redhead steering box.

The RedHead was the last piece installed as a final attempt to fix the steering before unloading the truck.

In all I had 6 bad boxes and was questioning the diagnosis which is why it took so long. Original box leaked at the bottom seal = definitely bad.

1st AGR didn't feel smooth - no idea how new box with new bearings could not be smooth. AGR # 2&3 dropped the lockring and lost fluid out the back. This causes sudden loss of brakes AND steering!!! AGR # 4 wouldn't return to center. AGR blamed alignment even after I adjusted box per their instructions. AGR wouldn't refund - said it was out of warranty. During this ordeal, I was paying install on all but the 1st box and got hit for 2 $100 tow bills due to being stranded by the dropped lock rings. I should have hit AGR's liability insurance.

A1-Cardone was next. It had lifetime parts and labor. I intended to just have new boxes until 1 worked. I got tired of the truck before installing more Cardone boxes. Also, I KNOW Cardone has poor quality on many parts.

I finally intended to sell the truck because it needs syncros and I hated how it steered. No sense putting syncros & expensive new clutch in something you hate driving. I decided to try RedHead as a last ditch effort to make it steer.

While I was there, I put a Borgeson steering shaft in. It steers like new. I attribute the good steering to having all of the suspension parts in good shape with (finally) a GOOD steering box.

So..check other parts then install RedHead and steering brace.

FWIW, Firestone has a lifetime alignment for ~ the cost of 2 trips on the machine. The techs aren't exceptional but let you know what's bad as they try to sell more parts.

The Borgeson shaft came from Geno's and the service was great. I ordered late Thursday and had the shaft by Friday. (Shipped 500 mi).

RedHead was $285 + $32 shipping. Core was $125 and I have to pay shipping to return the core.

torquefan

Some good advice on here. I too would keep the caster between 3 and 3.5 degrees; more OR less isn't going to help you. I too took all the Dodge chassis dynamics training and learned a couple things about making these trucks steer. As mentioned, caster on both sides has to be adjusted equally on both sides of a solid axle truck. If you try to just adjust one side, all you are doing is making the axle not square to the truck.

If you think your caster is as low as 0 deg, you should be able to see it visually. The upper and lower ball joints will be exactly vertical. If you have 3 deg of caster, you will see that the ball joints are tilted rearward to the top.

Less positive caster gives you less "on center" feel, and poorer returnability after a turn.

I should also point out that Moog ball joints work great on Dodge trucks that are 1999 or older. On 4wd trucks that are 2000 or newer, they are a disaster. Dodge changed the ball joints a bit in 2000, and the replacement Moogs are too tight and are well known to cause bad binding and poor returnability. I've experienced it myself a couple times, and there are many threads about it here. Not sure what year the OP's truck is, but if someone put Moog ball joints in it, that might be part of his problem.

I would also tend to stay away from jobber reman steering gearboxes, they just seem to be slapped together. I haven't actually seen one, but I sure like the sound of the Redhead boxes too. Nothing but good reviews here on the forum, and it seems like the guy is actually trying to fix a problem, and not just sell some used parts with new paint.


Just my

Go Fast

I am still experiencing the same problem. The tie rods and drag link and pitman arm have been replace with the 2009 and new style. The drop pitman arm and steering dampener was also changed to the 2009 and newer style. The steering gear box is a brand new dodge 2009 and newer style. The track bar has been replaced with new stock one. The power steering pump and hydro boost unit has been replaced. The dealer has thrown every possible part at it. The truck has 1 year old carli ball joints in it. As I explained I had zero problems before it went to the dealer. I was told I had a bad bad tie rod end. It was recommended that I upgrade to the new style steering. The nightmare and constant replacement of parts for now reason has continued. It has now been 52 days. I finally took my truck back from the dealer. I noticed that the cam adjustments on the lower control arms are set different. I am going to start at an independent alignment shop tomorrow. I believe the cam settings should be the same. From apperences it looks like the drivers wheel is toed out slightly. Currently the truck has sensitive steering and does not want to drive straight down the road. The dealer tells me that all the new steering parts need to break in. Any thoughts? Has anyone chased the same problem?

RickCJ

Got your PM, after reading this post you should have an idea, something they replaced is too tight and not letting the wheels return to center, or alignment machine is out of whack.