Replaced VP44: Ran Ok, now died and won't start
01-16-2018, 09:36 PM
#16
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Well you may or may not get a responce from him, if you look at his profile he hasn't been active since this summer.
Looks like your new here so welcome to the group. Their is a great wealth of knowledge here but if you cannot answer questions when your looking for guidance your not likley going to get helpful assistance troublshooting.
You have already replaced an expenssive part that may not have been bad, so I am thinking you could use some help. What else have you done in relation to your problem. Checking voltage doesn't always have meaning if your just doing it with a test light or multimeter. You may need to apply a load like a headlight bulb to confirm you have sufficient amperage and not just voltage.
Their is a hotwire procedure to check the operation of the vp pump have you done this yet?
Looks like your new here so welcome to the group. Their is a great wealth of knowledge here but if you cannot answer questions when your looking for guidance your not likley going to get helpful assistance troublshooting.
You have already replaced an expenssive part that may not have been bad, so I am thinking you could use some help. What else have you done in relation to your problem. Checking voltage doesn't always have meaning if your just doing it with a test light or multimeter. You may need to apply a load like a headlight bulb to confirm you have sufficient amperage and not just voltage.
Their is a hotwire procedure to check the operation of the vp pump have you done this yet?
01-17-2018, 03:35 PM
#17
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Thanks for your reply, i am trying to answer as best as i can.
I did not load test the pump supply voltage feed, very good suggestion.
I will also try to find the procedure for hot wiring.
If the voltage drops considerably, what would that point to as a problem?
Thanks !
I did not load test the pump supply voltage feed, very good suggestion.
I will also try to find the procedure for hot wiring.
If the voltage drops considerably, what would that point to as a problem?
Thanks !
01-17-2018, 09:32 PM
#18
01-30-2018, 06:33 AM
#19
Administrator
Here's the VP44 "hot wire" test:
Originally Posted by Blue Chip Diesel
HOT WIRE TEST - THE "FOR SURE TEST" TO DETERMINE IF THE VP44 IS WHY THE ENGINE WON'T START
It is very rare, but possible, for a problem with the wiring harness or the CAN Bus wires to prevent the engine from starting, so if you want to be 100% sure it IS the Injection Pump causing the no start, follow the following directions exactly, to be sure of not damaging a possibly good pump. This test POSITIVELY eliminates the possibility of overlooking an electrical problem caused by other components that could affect the start or run function of the VP44, as long as you have verified fuel delivery to the Injection Pump. Remove the electrical plug at the back of the Injection Pump and hot wire the pins on the pump as follows. Get two wires long enough to reach from the battery to the VP44. Install an INSULATED ¼ inch female spade connector onto one end of each wire. Use a set of dykes and cut the flat part and one of the "curls" away from each spade connector to leave one "curl" , which will be about the right size to go over the pin on the pump. Connect one INSULATED connector to pin 7 on the pump, which is the pin on the BOTTOM row of the socket on the Injection Pump, closest to the engine, to preferably fused (10 amp is fine) positive battery power in the PDC (Fuse box under the hood), or directly to the positive battery terminal if you like to take risks!.
Connect the other INSULATED connector to the pin directly above the previous connection, the top row of pins, the one closest to the engine, and attach the other end to battery ground. Now try to start the engine and if it doesn’t start, you absolutely positively 100% need an Injection Pump! If the engine starts this way but NOT with the big plug installed on the pump, you know there is something in the harness or CAN bus wiring to the ECM telling or causing the engine to not start. Call me for help if this is the case.
It is very rare, but possible, for a problem with the wiring harness or the CAN Bus wires to prevent the engine from starting, so if you want to be 100% sure it IS the Injection Pump causing the no start, follow the following directions exactly, to be sure of not damaging a possibly good pump. This test POSITIVELY eliminates the possibility of overlooking an electrical problem caused by other components that could affect the start or run function of the VP44, as long as you have verified fuel delivery to the Injection Pump. Remove the electrical plug at the back of the Injection Pump and hot wire the pins on the pump as follows. Get two wires long enough to reach from the battery to the VP44. Install an INSULATED ¼ inch female spade connector onto one end of each wire. Use a set of dykes and cut the flat part and one of the "curls" away from each spade connector to leave one "curl" , which will be about the right size to go over the pin on the pump. Connect one INSULATED connector to pin 7 on the pump, which is the pin on the BOTTOM row of the socket on the Injection Pump, closest to the engine, to preferably fused (10 amp is fine) positive battery power in the PDC (Fuse box under the hood), or directly to the positive battery terminal if you like to take risks!.
Connect the other INSULATED connector to the pin directly above the previous connection, the top row of pins, the one closest to the engine, and attach the other end to battery ground. Now try to start the engine and if it doesn’t start, you absolutely positively 100% need an Injection Pump! If the engine starts this way but NOT with the big plug installed on the pump, you know there is something in the harness or CAN bus wiring to the ECM telling or causing the engine to not start. Call me for help if this is the case.
02-19-2018, 10:15 AM
#21
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I have tried the hot wire test and i have the same results.
I have fuel pressure squirting out the injector nuts and have bled all the air out, but still no start.
It sounds like the timing is off, i checked the timing marks on the injector pump gear and cam gear and they are right on at TDC.
I also tried a shot of either and still will not start, sounded like it got vapor locked up a bit.
Any suggestions? Thanks!
I have fuel pressure squirting out the injector nuts and have bled all the air out, but still no start.
It sounds like the timing is off, i checked the timing marks on the injector pump gear and cam gear and they are right on at TDC.
I also tried a shot of either and still will not start, sounded like it got vapor locked up a bit.
Any suggestions? Thanks!
02-20-2018, 03:41 AM
#22
Registered User
Diesels do not get vapor locked.
I'd start by checking the valve clearance, and do this using the timing pin below the VP and compare this with the valve drop method of determining TDC ( see timing a 12V truck)
That way you can see if the camshaft is still in the correct relation to the crankshaft, and if you have valves stuck open that let your compression escape.
I'd start by checking the valve clearance, and do this using the timing pin below the VP and compare this with the valve drop method of determining TDC ( see timing a 12V truck)
That way you can see if the camshaft is still in the correct relation to the crankshaft, and if you have valves stuck open that let your compression escape.
02-20-2018, 08:35 AM
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Thanks!
I meant to say ether locked, not vapor locked.
I did check valve clearance and 1 and 6 exhaust seemed very loose about .055-.065.
I did not verify TDC by valve drop method , just the TDC timing line on VP gear and mark on timing cover.
That is a good idea though, i will try that now.
Thanks!
I meant to say ether locked, not vapor locked.
I did check valve clearance and 1 and 6 exhaust seemed very loose about .055-.065.
I did not verify TDC by valve drop method , just the TDC timing line on VP gear and mark on timing cover.
That is a good idea though, i will try that now.
Thanks!
02-20-2018, 03:26 PM
#24
Registered User
I don't know what you mean by "ether locked"-
But in my opinion it's like that:
A diesel engine will run if:
A: There is air
B: it is compressed to the combustion point of the chosen fuel
C: there is fuel at the right time
So, with starting fluid (NOT TO BE USED WITH GRID HEATERS OPERATIVE!!!) if A and B are there... the engine should run. ( at least fire for a short moment and increase RPM)
So, if it does not do that, your problem is not fuel related, but either A (forgot a shop rag somewhere) or B (got the camshaft in there any way you like or the valves set to something ridiculous, forgot the pushrods [DAMHIK!!])
But... if tha valve clearance seems to be loose you should not be off the timing dramatically... you seem to hit the base circle of the cam- except if somebody adjusted the valves in a stupid way.. ( I had a C-series that would not run, when I got there the owner stated- Did not start after setting valve clearance- adjusted all valves on cylinder 1 firing TDC.. )
But in my opinion it's like that:
A diesel engine will run if:
A: There is air
B: it is compressed to the combustion point of the chosen fuel
C: there is fuel at the right time
So, with starting fluid (NOT TO BE USED WITH GRID HEATERS OPERATIVE!!!) if A and B are there... the engine should run. ( at least fire for a short moment and increase RPM)
So, if it does not do that, your problem is not fuel related, but either A (forgot a shop rag somewhere) or B (got the camshaft in there any way you like or the valves set to something ridiculous, forgot the pushrods [DAMHIK!!])
But... if tha valve clearance seems to be loose you should not be off the timing dramatically... you seem to hit the base circle of the cam- except if somebody adjusted the valves in a stupid way.. ( I had a C-series that would not run, when I got there the owner stated- Did not start after setting valve clearance- adjusted all valves on cylinder 1 firing TDC.. )
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