New Tires, Now I'm almost afraid to drive,
 

Just had Firestone transforce A/T truck tires put on my truck 98 24 valve, 2wd quad cab,. Load range E, 245/75r16,.
Drove on the freeway about 20 miles and thought I was darn near going to crash (it was all over the place...very uncomfortable to drive)... I had thought he might have had the pressure at 35 or something so I just drove it home. Front tire pressure was only at 50,..so I put it at 73ish (back tires are at 80). Traffic is too bad right now to try the freeway,..I tried surface streets and it seems like upping the pressure may have only helped a little bit...if at all.
HOW CAN NEW TIRES DO THAT WHEN THE OLD ONES (EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE DOWN TO ONLY 1/16 TREAD LEFT) WERE FINE????????
So, I just checked my alignment. The toe in is maybe 1/32 of an inch...A teeny tiny bit less than recommended (except I think 4x4s are recommended at 0 toe in). My understanding is toe in should be about an eighth.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY IDEAS?????? I changed all the tie rod ends and ball joints about 30,000 miles back. It can't be them. I really don't have time to go back to firestone and ask them what the hell is going on..(not sure they would even know).
Please chime in if you know something.

I have had some tires that, when new were 'wobbly'. After a week or so, they were good. Not sure why, but they were.

Tire pressure may have something to do with it as well. You also get used to the way it drove on the old tires.

I'd do a safety check- no bulges/bumps, separating tread, etc. If no issues are found, use some surface streets to get used to them.

I second Hats advice......... I have seen it once or twice myself.

It's not wobbly. But, if you have ever driven a truck that had load range C when it should have had E,...(I have)..that's what it reminds me of.
If I turn a little,...it will veer over like I was doing a heavier turn.
I just tightened my steering gear,.. Not sure if that will help but freeway's too packed for a couple more hours. My first guess was pressure, second guess was toe-in,.. But I've checked my toe in two or three times and it usually comes in right around 1/16 of an inch..

I have no bulges, etc.,.. The wonderful guys at firestone put in a wacko valve stem (sometimes it leaks out the valve,..and other's not... I found that out when I was raising the front tire pressure to 77ish... Think I am going to leave them at 77ish in the front and 80 back.

OK, well, thanks for the replies. I don't think they are bad tires...but there is something that is fishy..and I hope it goes away after driving a couple weeks.

Take it easy for a couple hundred miles, and they should go back to normal. My last set of Firestone's were the same, felt real sketchy for 100 miles and then went away.

Once broken in they were a great tire.

Well first off..... I wouldn't hesitate for a second to take it right back and let them know. Especially if its as dangerous as you describe.

Maybe there's something wrong which they can address, or maybe there's something mechanically wrong.

As for alignment, toe should be about 1/8"-1/4" depending. Anything less and it will tend to wander.

And air pressure shouldn't need to be anywhere near that high unless you're towing.

Might just be terrible tires. :thumbsup:

As the others have said, I have also had a new set of tires that were real squirmy for the first few hundred miles; felt like they were all almost flat. The feeling faded away as they broke in and then they were fine.

I have seen reports of this type of handling behavior before. Particularly on some RV boards that I hang around. It seems that after driving for a week or so the tires settle down and are fine. Unless you are towing at max loads my recommendation, FWIW, would be to lower your tire pressures to 65 in the front and rear tires and drive it for a few days. Adjust to suit your style after that.

Cheers!

Mike

I forgot to mention to check the load range, but you got it...

My rule with new tires is drive them on a rough road with a little less than normal tire pressure a while. It lets the tire reseat its self on the rim. The I nair it up and have it rebalanced. Rarely have I had a problem after that. When I did it was a bad tire.

it doesn't drive safely I wouldn't wait the week or two to see if it gets better. TAKE IT BACK!
Maybe they didn't seat the beads right, Maybe they didn't balance them right, Maybe they were defective from the start.
If tires were supposed to work in then all new vehicles would drive goofy, and that isn't the case.

I've had 4 different sets of tires including a set of the wrong load range and they all rode fine from day 1.
The only way I knew the one set was the wrong range was they wore out in 25k...Since Goodyear recommended and installed they replaced the whole set with the right range for $300. plus tax.

I couldnt agree more VADSLRAM.....

Can you imagine if people bought a brand new car/truck and it was all over the road, only to have the dealer say "well the new tires just need to wear in, give it a couple weeks". [laugh]

OK,
I set the steering close to zero toe in,.. which made a tiny bit of difference for the better. Still wanders back and forth but not as scary as it was before I removed the toe in.

I have been about 1000 miles now. And have come to the conclusion that my steering box has too much play. I adjusted it a few years ago...tightened it up, which helped a lot at the time. I tried to adjust it a little tighter the other day and I adjusted the screw all the way in without it getting any tighter at all before it bottomed out. That leads me to believe that too much play is in the steering box and it should be replaced. I haven't changed one in a long long time. Maybe 40 years. I hope they are not that hard. Nowadays the hardest part is all the garbage in the way so you can't see anything to work on it.

The hardest part of the steering box is getting the pitman arm off. On my 2001 2500 I had to remove the box with the arm still on and hold it in a vice to get it off. The steering box just laughed at the puller. [laugh] I really did a number on the old steering box though a 10lb sledge will do that. You might want to check to ensure your frame is not broken around the steering box and also consider a "steering stabilizer" bar.

Is a steering stabilizer bar something they put on 2wd models? I was thinking that was just 4x4 stuff.
I just ordered a new steering box,.. will get it tomorrow. Just an autozone one but it's not like I ever go off road or anything.

A bent steering stabilizer will also cause weird tracking issues.

A steering stabilizer bar is bolted between the two frame rails close to the steering box, there is a bearing that slips over the steering box output shaft and when bolted down to the cross bar that stabilizes the steering box to prevent rocking of the steering box. I don't think your problem is anything more than the new tires though. On my 2001 I had 4 new Michelin tires installed, the exact same make and model I had been using for years, the truck was all over the road just like yours, I took them back to Costco and they replaced them no questions asked and the problem was gone.

Steering stabilizers are the horizontal shock absorber mounted to the front steering components, designed to reduce road transmitted shock through large tires back into the steering system.

A steering box brace is the aftermarket bar which mounts between the frame and houses a bracket to hold the steering box sector shaft from deflecting, and the steering box flexing on the frame mount, as the drag link applies lateral pressure against it.

Steering box braces are usually something only helpful when running larger than factory tires. But, they dont hurt to have just because. :thumbsup:

If you ask DR Google about a Dodge steering stabilizer or a Dodge steering stabilizer bar you get the bar. In the factory manual the shock is called a "damper". I think the extra weight of the diesel engine puts more stress on the steering box and the frame where the box is bolted too. I've seen pics of broken frames where the box attaches.

If it was me the last thing you said things where fine with the old tires and when you installed hew ones the problem showed up i would say you have some problems with the tires you just put on new does not mean their good.

I agree if the problem JUST started when the tires where installed.
It is most likely the tires themselves.

You are right.
HOLY CRAP! I am using a 48 inch pipe wrench on the puller,... I am really having a hard time lifting the wrench up and getting it on it. I expected it to bust something,..but so far,..it hasn't broke or budged. I may take it off with the pitman arm on it like you did,.. BUT, ..there is not enough clearance for me to unhook the power steering fluid lines from above,..so I was going to drop it down a bit first and then undo them. ONE MORE PROBLEM,.. the steering shaft,..I pulled out the bolt
,..and I can't get it off all the way. It stops at like a half inch out and doesn't want to go any further.. Any ideas please chime in. I took a map gas torch to it but nogo (that usually works for a lot of stuff). I really don't want to get out acetaline. I'm not comfy with all that heat around diesel,...
ok,

I was thinking of cutting it off,..but a new pitman arm for a diesel is close to 200 bucks at auto zone with tax. Sounds a bit expensive. I tried an air hammer on it for a while. Nothing happenned... It's pretty rare that I get "stuck' on a repair. This one takes the cake... The problem,..I can barely get the 48" pipe wrench to turn the bolt. I expected the puller to break already but it hasn't.

You cant remove the pitman arm from the steering box?

I got it off.
I had a 48 inch pipe wrench and probably tweeked around 1000 ft.lbs... All the strength i had. Heated it, etc., Gave up,... went in and took a break. Came back outside and decided to give it one last try before giving in for the night.

It had loosened itself a bit while I took that break. Because my last try,..it started coming off.. But not in one big bang like everybody says it will. Just slowly got easier and easier to turn. Yipee.

So...new one is bolted up loosely, new problem. I can't get the steering shaft all the way in,..tried a few times.. thought it wasn't lined up or something. That flat spot pretty much makes it easy to line up. But I can't get it to go on all the way,...only half way (just the opposite of when I took it off...but after I took the bolts out of the old steering box,..the shaft basically just fell off....it leads me to believe that my shaft should be a bit shorter or something.

(I replaced the shaft in my 93 4x4 diesel with that one from summit racing....it was really easy,..I don't know why this is such a bummer.

If your still trying to remove the pitman arm, I would take a ball pean hammer and using the ball pean end strike the splined end of the arm with it. What you are trying to do with this method is making the splined portion which is perfectly round in shape and distorting its shape of perfectly round to a slight fraction of an egg shape.

This works on many things that are round in shape like ball joint ends, hydraulic hose fittings and many many other things that seat themselves together over time.

Got the new one on
, Everything back together,
Filled with power steering fluid.

CRAP,..I have no power steering, no power brakes, no nothing???
Did I screw up a vacuum pump??? I don't even know where that thing would be but I'm thinking it's not good

The vacuum pump has nothing to do with it. The brakes and steering are powered by the hydroassist system which is fed by the power steering pump.

Making sure I'm following what happened.....did you replace the steering box? If so then I'm sure you introduced the system full of air. I understand that you can sometimes bleed the air out by jacking the axle off the ground and with the engine running, turn lock to lock a few times. Obviously watching the PS fluid level too.

Yes, I replaced the steering box. I'm sure I got air in the system.
I've jacked the front of the ground and added more fluid and went lock to lock quite a few times. Went for a ride around the neighborhood. I now have my brakes back. I only have partial power steering though... And it's really noisy (I had a 1 ton dodge 1975...and the power steering sounded like that but if functioned fine) and sketchy.
I checked the reservior,.. it's foaming all over the place..obviously from the air that I should have gotten in there. I doubt this is going to fix itself unless it's self-bleeding (I doubt that)..and I get a lot of different opinions when I do a search. I do have a hand vacuum pump,..but I don't see how that would help if the system is not self bleeding in the first place.

Just sent you a PM.

OK,
All done.
Apparently it is true that the pump is self bleeding.

I got up this morning, jacked the front of the ground,.. kept adding fluid in increments,...turning the wheel lock to lock about 25 times between adding. When I was done,.. All was well again.

By the way, this new power steering pump makes it easier to steer than my original.. It is nearly as easy as the 92 gasser I had. I was real surprised that it was easier than oem.

ok,
Thanks all for your inputs. By the way,..I actually used a long clamp for getting the steering shaft to go all the way in where it belongs.

ok, after having the new steering pump,.. I love the pump, but it only did a tiny bit to help my steering wander problems.

I did replace my ball joints and tie rod ends 30k miles back and have only done highway driving. (first ones went over 200K.

HOWEVER, I did not replace the center link when I did this. Is there wear that can happen in that center link?.. I mean, all I see is that the centerlink connects to 1) to the pitman arm, 2) the idler pitman arm (probably technically not a pitman arm), 3) the left tie rod, and 4) the right tie rod. I have since found that there are two bushings...I've ordered these but for the life of me can't see if they go to the pitman arm or if they go where the tie rod ends connect.??

The only parts that I haven't replaced (other than the centerlink) is: pitman arm, wannabe pitman arm, and steering shaft. Shaft seems tight. When I had the pitman arm off the p.s. pump..it seemed tight,..but I have to assume it is hard to actually tell just but onhooking one end and monkeying with it.

I'm not completely sure what you're trying to describe. Can you take a picture of the parts you're talking about? :thumbsup:

My camera doesn't have a flash.
BUT,..the centerlink is the rod that goes from the left tie rod end all the way to the right tie rod end... In the middle of the rod is the pitman arm on one side and an idler (pitman type) arm on the other. I do suspect the idler arm is loose (looks like it's there to take a beating), and I was just going to order one but they tell me there is more than one size bolt hole and I have to tell them which one... I think they are dreaming if they think there are 3 different size bolt holes for '98 dodge diesel 2wds. Really don't want to take something off just to measure it and then put it back again.