actually I'm quite happy with stock LSD rear end. I just wish front end would be LSD also as I'd have better transfer when going uphills> I don't do 4wheeling, just use my truck in winter.
I was trying to pull out a friends 2wd truck out of iced up snow other winter and didn't do so well as truck just dug itself into the snow/mud. I think I would've had better chances with LSD front end.

 

Two weeks ago I drug out a Dodge Cummins crew cab 4X4 that was sliding side ways and down hill into a ravine, me having a detrot locker with chains saved his bacon.
I was pulling up hill on snow and slick rocks, pulled him out with my 2001,1/2 ton 318.
I am sold on a locking rear end for off the road going.

 

I would go the extra for the ARB lockers.
I have a toyota with front and rear detroit lockers.
great in the snow, mud. But on ice I leave it at home.

with all 4 wheels pulling the only place you are going is down hill.

even with the two rear wheels locked together you are going to fish tail on ice.

if it is a towing, daily driver, I would go for the ARB.


now, a locked rear with chaines is pretty good on ice.

the only thing that has stopped my toyota with lockers and chains is the motor compartment filled with snow and the belts came off.

we run 36 inch tires and you can get chains for any aplication through tirechains.com

I think they were 280.00 for two sets with shipping. they are heavy as heck.

 

I have had this discussion with someone in length before and the out come is that you "can" run a limited slip or a locker in the front on a CAD axle. All that will happen is your front driveshaft will now spin all the time no matter if the CAD is engaged or not. This is because the preload is greater than the resistance of the spinning driveshaft. BUT.....let me be clear that I dont advise anyone running anything other than an open or selectable carrier in the front.....unless the vehicle never runs on the highway. Its just to dangerous and not fair to other vehicles who you chance running in to.

I'm actually very happy with my LS too. Works great for what I need. I'm not really sure whats available for the Dana 80 anyways but I think its not much. The problem we run into is strength. Most traction aiding carriers cant stand up to the GVWR which the Cummins is capable of so in turn it would become a weak link in towing.
Also.....I would highly suggest you rethink a LS up front. Selectable or nothing. Just to dangerous on snow/icy roads, even in 2wd.

 

You can also eliminate the CAD all together if you do go with the LSD for the front

 

Katoom, your friend is only partially right. The preload on *some* posi's will be stiff enough to spin the carrier rather than the spider gears. But this will cause a slight pull to one side as the posi decides to slip or whatever.

Locker not the same. Your friend is ONLY right with a Detroit. The godawful noise of the front ratcheting if you put in a lunchbox locker will convince you not to drive it immediately. The amount of force to spin a lunchbox is less than to spin a posi-which in most cases is your hands on the tire. Posi's usually spin REALLY REALLY easily unless there is torque on both tires. Which there is NOT with one side disengaged.

In theory a Detroit or spool would survive in the front because they would not ratchet or spin, but again, the resistance from the hypoid ring and pinion and will be felt on one side while driving.

Keep in mind lunchbox lockers drive no matter what-but you can ratchet them with virtually no resistance. They do NOT lock the axles together. That's just not how ratchet lockers work. The way they work is they prevent the axles traveling slower than the carrier. IE the axle cannot drive the carrier, only the carrier can drive the axle. I wish I could describe this function better.

In short it takes nearly no force to ratchet the locker unless it's working against the direction of the carrier force. Which with the 4x disengaged, there is none, so the drivers side coupler will ratchet like engaging reverse at speed-but with less force. NOT A HAPPY NOISE.

It's just not a good modification without doing something about the CAD, IMO worse than a "lincoln locker". FWIW, I have installed ALL the types of devices mentioned, as well as machined carriers for ABS tone rings, installed ring and pinions etc, with the sole exception of a full case Detroit. Never put one in myself yet.

Not to knock Lincolns, but weld splatter getting loose and going through the R&P can be UUUUGLY!

As to 2wd operation, I refer back to my previous post. Lunchbox locker and posi will be virtually invisible in 2wd. On ice, the king daddy of safety is still the open diff no matter what. Any traction device with power going to it will tend to cause both tires to spin out. Open diff will usually only spin one side out, so you still have something keeping you in control-the tire that ISN'T spinning out.

 

To the op what is your purpose with a locker/lsd? You will get better feedback if we know what that.

Also a traction device in the front diff does not affect anything if you add a freespin kit and unlock the hubs, however I would just swap in a ford dana 60 if I were going to put in a locker up front.

 

Or just swap the knuckles. Much easier than converting from coil to leaf spring.

BTW personally I like the standard rotation gears (our trucks are standard rotation fronts) more than the reverse rotation gears found in many Ford fronts. This is because when you drive down the road in 2wd hubs locked, the force to the R&P goes backwards pushing the "heel" of the gear. This means there is much less resistance. Also it's stronger when driving in reverse 4x where that front axle really gets put to work. You can feel the "drag" of the front a LOT more with reverse rotation in the front.

 

The Ford axle also does not have the CAD and has 35 spline inners stock.

I just saw a 97 ford 60 front for $400 and that's pretty close to my what I am into my junkyard freespin kit with just the spindles.

 

Oooo! That's a good point, I forgot about the inners. Just keep in mind that doing just the spindle you will have bolt pattern and depth "issues" Also if you get the whole knuckle, the arms are longer allowing stronger, more precise steering. It also allows straight link steering to clear the punkin, which the Dodge knuckles do not.

I know that the Ford knuckle swap is possible using the Dodge inner axles... I wonder if you could use the whole Ford axleshaft assembly, and drop in a D60 locker with 35 spline sides... The only issue I can think of would be the inner axle seal. Oh and clearing the CAD actuator. Cut fork off or get cover plate.

I thought 96 was the end of the interchange split for the knuckle, though. (I'm probably wrong) But another thing being tossed around is that the Dana 50HD uses D60 outers, rather than the D44's that some have, and I've read that folks have used these to replace damaged parts on the straight axles. If this is correct one could assume that it's possible to use them for freespins on Dodges. Though the inners obviously would not be choice-probably 30 spline.

PS One other thing to consider is that I *think* the Ford outers are 30 spline, and the split for the coil sprung Dodge going from 30 to 32 spline front inners was around 96, so if you have a 32 spline front already, it might be strong enough anyway. I'm quoting a few numbers off the top of my head, so don't be surprised if there's a goof in there.

 

I'm talking about swapping the entire axle -- housing and all. And yes it would be a lot of fab work on the suspension! That's why I want to know what this guy is really looking to do. If you lock the stock front end you have to build it or you'll break parts all day. If you build it why not start with a better axle that is cheaper in the long run--make sense?

My freespin kit is done and works flawlessly. It is not the strongest setup available, but it suits my needs and if I saw that axle before I had the parts I would have done the knuckles on out. I can explain what I did with the bolt pattern and depth issues, but that belongs in a different thread.

 

Oh, I misunderstood! I didn't realize you already did it. Just wanted to warn you.

Makes sense to me.

To op-sorry for the tangent! :P

But back to a front traction device-Simply bypass the vac switch at the transfer case to leave the CAD in "permanently". 4x4 switch will make the dash light on all the time, and if you disable it your dash light will still not come on when you shift since it runs off the switch at the axle. But it's a very simple way to disable the cad for a front traction device. I am unaware of a delete kit that addresses the dash light issue, but it will make your 4x shift instantly not just "on the fly". Never waiting for the front end to spool to matching speed and a vac actuator to shift the CAD in. It's VERY nice.

 

I have the true trac. I popped the factory rear pulling some logs. I wanted diffs for mainained dirt road and ice. This was what the shop sold me on. I had them do the front and rear for about 2k. I can barely feel the tug on the front with the front hubs locked and in 4x4. They work great when it gets slippery as we all know a 4 ton truck does not make a good mudder. It is just too heavy. If I had only 2x4 I would of put in a air locker in the rear. These are light work trucks and not recreational toys. Build it for it purpose and need.

 

All I can say is that I thought the same as you thinking that a LS in a CAD axle would simply burn the clutches, until I was instructed to witness exactly how strong the preload is on the OEM limited slip by jacking up one tire and spinning it by hand. I was shocked to see that even with almost 35" tires, it was surprisingly difficult to spin the tire against the LS clutches with zero power applied to the carrier. Then to jack up both sides and see how well the other tire follows and consider that with the CAD axle disconnected there is no weight of the other tire to work against which means that the LS will act like a spool while the CAD is disconnected. So with that said, you cant tell me that a LS in a CAD front axle wont be able to spin the front driveshaft at road speeds without spinning the clutches. There is simply not enough resistance from the front driveshaft and any resistance the driveshaft did offer would cause the clutches to hold even more. And.....this is with a weak OEM carrier with 100k miles where a newer aftermarket LS would have a much higher preload breakaway. My point by saying this is that a LS would not be invisible in a CAD..........not to say that I condone running any traction adding carrier in the front other than a selectable locker.

I agree with you about lockers but I dont understand what you mean by the preload springs winding up and then releasing. As far as I understood any locker, they're locked or unlocked with each design having its varied way of accomplishing that task. There's no spring that winds up to stop the outside tire from being able to spin faster than the inside tire. Although you seem to know more about these than I so.....

I would knock them..... Not only is it a stupid thing to do on a street driven vehicle, its also illegal. If you never drive on the road then by all means, weld until your hearts desire.

 

Truetrac carriers are different and will react different than any other carrier by offering power to the tire with the most traction. I'd love to have one in my truck but I dont think they make one for the Dana 80. I understand that the Truetrac isn't strong enough for that application, or should I say that they just dont make one strong enough. Still..........I dont feel anything but a selectable carrier up front is wise on a non-differential transfercase 4wd system. Not saying that it would be dangerous for every either but that it does offer a greater chance of danger.