Suspension work.
08-23-2017, 07:48 AM
#1
Administrator
Thread Starter
Suspension work.
About how much should front suspension work cost?
I need to have some suspension work done on my truck,
I need to have the upper and lower control arm bushings replaced,
The upper and lower ball joints replaced and then an alignment.
I was putting it off because I wanted to replace the coil spring first.
About 6-7 months ago I got a detailed estimate from Bear Wheel and Frame for about $600.00 and change, when I went there today I ask for him to give me an estimate and he said oh it will be about $1000.- $1200.
I ask why so much, beginning of the year it was half that much and you gave me a detailed bill of materials,
He said well the parts all went up and I said I really doubt that much, then he said he will work with me on that price.
This was using all Moog parts.
I know there could be hidden problems but there should be a set price for what I want replaced.
What is the going price for suspension work at a legitimate shop?
I still want to replace my springs first.
Thanks Jim
I need to have some suspension work done on my truck,
I need to have the upper and lower control arm bushings replaced,
The upper and lower ball joints replaced and then an alignment.
I was putting it off because I wanted to replace the coil spring first.
About 6-7 months ago I got a detailed estimate from Bear Wheel and Frame for about $600.00 and change, when I went there today I ask for him to give me an estimate and he said oh it will be about $1000.- $1200.
I ask why so much, beginning of the year it was half that much and you gave me a detailed bill of materials,
He said well the parts all went up and I said I really doubt that much, then he said he will work with me on that price.
This was using all Moog parts.
I know there could be hidden problems but there should be a set price for what I want replaced.
What is the going price for suspension work at a legitimate shop?
I still want to replace my springs first.
Thanks Jim
08-23-2017, 08:44 AM
#2
Administrator
Personally I think they screwed up on the first estimate. 600 bucks for those parts in Moog plus labor plus alignment for that price is a screaming deal.
And I am sure Cali. is more expensive than around here.
I would work with him to get closer to that 1K number.
And I am sure Cali. is more expensive than around here.
I would work with him to get closer to that 1K number.
08-23-2017, 01:51 PM
#4
Interesting article above. Note that the tests they were doing were for the 4x4 front axle application, not jim lane's D350 2wd. One of the reasons he went carli was to not use oversize knurled BJs on the cast inner "Cs". Not really applicable in our situation, as we are dealing with stamped steel. I rebuilt my own 2wd front end completely with Moog problem solver joints bushings links and ends, all USA made. Some Moog are made in China though But both USA and China are offered, and seem to be a mixed bag depending on where/when you buy. Make sure you do get the correct upper/lower control arm bushings Moog K7189 for uppers, and K7192 for the lowers. The shop may not know this.
Source Citation from Mysteryman:
"3) The 91. 5/92/93 diesel trucks have a different durometer rubber in the upper and lower control arm bushings than did the gas trucks. This is not reflected in the factory parts manuals nor until recently was it in the aftermarket catalogs. . Moog many years ago did offer the uppers but did discontinued them about 10 years ago. Thanks to yours truly here Moog now once again offers them. . I know a few of the engineers over at Moog and convinced them make them again. I am surprised that I was able to do so. They are not exact a high sales volume part ! The respective part #'s are K7189 for the uppers and K7192 for the lowers. . . . "
Source Citation from Mysteryman:
"3) The 91. 5/92/93 diesel trucks have a different durometer rubber in the upper and lower control arm bushings than did the gas trucks. This is not reflected in the factory parts manuals nor until recently was it in the aftermarket catalogs. . Moog many years ago did offer the uppers but did discontinued them about 10 years ago. Thanks to yours truly here Moog now once again offers them. . I know a few of the engineers over at Moog and convinced them make them again. I am surprised that I was able to do so. They are not exact a high sales volume part ! The respective part #'s are K7189 for the uppers and K7192 for the lowers. . . . "
08-23-2017, 03:56 PM
#5
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Interesting article above. Note that the tests they were doing were for the 4x4 front axle application, not jim lane's D350 2wd. One of the reasons he went carli was to not use oversize knurled BJs on the cast inner "Cs". Not really applicable in our situation, as we are dealing with stamped steel. I rebuilt my own 2wd front end completely with Moog problem solver joints bushings links and ends, all USA made. Some Moog are made in China though But both USA and China are offered, and seem to be a mixed bag depending on where/when you buy. Make sure you do get the correct upper/lower control arm bushings Moog K7189 for uppers, and K7192 for the lowers. The shop may not know this.
Source Citation from Mysteryman:
"3) The 91. 5/92/93 diesel trucks have a different durometer rubber in the upper and lower control arm bushings than did the gas trucks. This is not reflected in the factory parts manuals nor until recently was it in the aftermarket catalogs. . Moog many years ago did offer the uppers but did discontinued them about 10 years ago. Thanks to yours truly here Moog now once again offers them. . I know a few of the engineers over at Moog and convinced them make them again. I am surprised that I was able to do so. They are not exact a high sales volume part ! The respective part #'s are K7189 for the uppers and K7192 for the lowers. . . . "
Source Citation from Mysteryman:
"3) The 91. 5/92/93 diesel trucks have a different durometer rubber in the upper and lower control arm bushings than did the gas trucks. This is not reflected in the factory parts manuals nor until recently was it in the aftermarket catalogs. . Moog many years ago did offer the uppers but did discontinued them about 10 years ago. Thanks to yours truly here Moog now once again offers them. . I know a few of the engineers over at Moog and convinced them make them again. I am surprised that I was able to do so. They are not exact a high sales volume part ! The respective part #'s are K7189 for the uppers and K7192 for the lowers. . . . "
Wow !
That's amazing he was able to do that. If I owned a 2wd, I'd buy a bunch of those bushings and stockpile them....
Great info you have there.
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mknittle (08-24-2017)
08-24-2017, 05:59 AM
#6
Administrator
Thread Starter
Thanks,
Tomorrow I am going to get a few more estimates, one is from the same company but a different location,
I have a few other and they are around $900.00.
About how much should the parts cost for Moog?
Are there any other brands you would trust?
Jim
Tomorrow I am going to get a few more estimates, one is from the same company but a different location,
I have a few other and they are around $900.00.
About how much should the parts cost for Moog?
Are there any other brands you would trust?
Jim
08-24-2017, 10:07 AM
#7
Registered User
Be glad your not in Alaska.
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08-30-2017, 10:16 AM
#8
Registered User
I would say the job total should be from $500 to $900 dollars. Something that is more expensive is machining out the current seat in the control arms and putting a rebuild-able ball joint in there. Dynatrac HD Balljoints are common for most of the D250 guys around here. A good machine shop should be able to get you into the tolerance of the factory but compensate for the large diameter.
08-30-2017, 05:50 PM
#9
Administrator
Thread Starter
I went to another Bear Frame and Wheel shop and after talking to him for awhile I had a good feeling about them, so I dropped off my truck last night so he could get at it first thing in the morning.
Bear Frame and Wheel used to be the place to go in the 60's and 70's for the best suspension work.
The original job was to only replace the:
upper and lower control arm bushings,
upper and lower ball joints,
and now it will also include the
drag link,
idler arm,
heavy duty coil springs,
spring isolators.
using all Moog parts.
I told him that I wanted to install my new springs first before the alignment and he told me he would install them for free since he was already under the truck.
All for $1456.07
A little bit more than I wanted to spend but considering that for the entire time I have owned my truck I have only spent money on Michelin Tires, 3 blown transmissions and 1 set of injectors.
Everything else was for upgrades and fun stuff.
Now my entire front end will be rebuilt and I will not have to worry about it for another 400.000 miles.
The daughter of the shop owner called me awhile ago and said it should be ready in a few more hours, said her dad (shop owner) has been working on it since 8:00am and she has never seen him take so much care with a job, he keeps greasing things and wiping everything down, she think he likes the truck or something.
Jim
Bear Frame and Wheel used to be the place to go in the 60's and 70's for the best suspension work.
The original job was to only replace the:
upper and lower control arm bushings,
upper and lower ball joints,
and now it will also include the
drag link,
idler arm,
heavy duty coil springs,
spring isolators.
using all Moog parts.
I told him that I wanted to install my new springs first before the alignment and he told me he would install them for free since he was already under the truck.
All for $1456.07
A little bit more than I wanted to spend but considering that for the entire time I have owned my truck I have only spent money on Michelin Tires, 3 blown transmissions and 1 set of injectors.
Everything else was for upgrades and fun stuff.
Now my entire front end will be rebuilt and I will not have to worry about it for another 400.000 miles.
The daughter of the shop owner called me awhile ago and said it should be ready in a few more hours, said her dad (shop owner) has been working on it since 8:00am and she has never seen him take so much care with a job, he keeps greasing things and wiping everything down, she think he likes the truck or something.
Jim
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oliver foster (08-30-2017)
08-30-2017, 07:17 PM
#11
Glad you got someone you feel great about to work on your truck, Jim. Places like that are hard to find. You got lucky on that free install on the springs, lol. Makes sense, though, as they were already in there.
You gonna get the owner and the crew some good munchies like you did the transmission shop crew? I remember when you did that. Sometimes those little things can go a long way for if you ever need to come back.
The tire shop I have been going to for years, he never charges me labor to buy and replace new tires, the axle work he did on my wife's Camry, my son's Lexus, etc. over the years. He only charges me for parts. I don't go to him for that luxury;Ive been going to him for years because he's honest and takes care of his customers. There are times when I tell him not to swing any deals and I don't mind paying for the labor. It's the honesty of his business that keeps me coming back.
On those no labor charge days, all he asks of me in return is to go next door to the liquor store and buy his crew a couple cases of beer.
You gonna get the owner and the crew some good munchies like you did the transmission shop crew? I remember when you did that. Sometimes those little things can go a long way for if you ever need to come back.
The tire shop I have been going to for years, he never charges me labor to buy and replace new tires, the axle work he did on my wife's Camry, my son's Lexus, etc. over the years. He only charges me for parts. I don't go to him for that luxury;Ive been going to him for years because he's honest and takes care of his customers. There are times when I tell him not to swing any deals and I don't mind paying for the labor. It's the honesty of his business that keeps me coming back.
On those no labor charge days, all he asks of me in return is to go next door to the liquor store and buy his crew a couple cases of beer.
08-31-2017, 04:59 AM
#12
Administrator
Thread Starter
Wow,
I think that I might have spoken too soon, I went and picked up my truck yesterday and he said everything is all finished but the front end it up kind of high ??
But since it was after 5:00 P.M. I just paid him and had to get back to work,
The truck feels a lot better but wow I can almost het my head in between the tire and the wheel well, no kidding it is a little high.
It looks more like a Pre Runner now, yea that high.
The parts store had given him a pair of Moog #5716S, according to the specifications they are a Chevy spring but they also fit a Dodge D-350.
I got under the truck and checked it out and there is no way I will accept these springs, they are dangerous.
I started taking some measurements and found that the upper control arm is about 1/2" from the rubber bump stop, I have no rebound, if I take a dip through an intersection, the control arm will hit the spring hanger, I can lift up on the truck and hit the bump stop, no way these will work, how could this spring work on this suspension.
There has to be a mistake somewhere.
The spring is physically to tall to fit the tower, maybe if the truck had a 1000 lb. plow on the front it might fit, I am afraid this would eventually damage the control arm or tear out a ball joint.
Checking the specs on the springs, the springs have the specs of the severe duty springs, and I specifically said I wanted the Heavy Duty Springs.
I am going to go back this morning and see what he will do to fix this, he is going to have to replace the springs with a shorter one.
Or I will go to Atlas Spring and have the coil shortened to keep the suspension in its proper geometry.
Geez, nothing ever goes as planned.
Oh and other than that, his work was great.
Jim
I think that I might have spoken too soon, I went and picked up my truck yesterday and he said everything is all finished but the front end it up kind of high ??
But since it was after 5:00 P.M. I just paid him and had to get back to work,
The truck feels a lot better but wow I can almost het my head in between the tire and the wheel well, no kidding it is a little high.
It looks more like a Pre Runner now, yea that high.
The parts store had given him a pair of Moog #5716S, according to the specifications they are a Chevy spring but they also fit a Dodge D-350.
I got under the truck and checked it out and there is no way I will accept these springs, they are dangerous.
I started taking some measurements and found that the upper control arm is about 1/2" from the rubber bump stop, I have no rebound, if I take a dip through an intersection, the control arm will hit the spring hanger, I can lift up on the truck and hit the bump stop, no way these will work, how could this spring work on this suspension.
There has to be a mistake somewhere.
The spring is physically to tall to fit the tower, maybe if the truck had a 1000 lb. plow on the front it might fit, I am afraid this would eventually damage the control arm or tear out a ball joint.
Checking the specs on the springs, the springs have the specs of the severe duty springs, and I specifically said I wanted the Heavy Duty Springs.
I am going to go back this morning and see what he will do to fix this, he is going to have to replace the springs with a shorter one.
Or I will go to Atlas Spring and have the coil shortened to keep the suspension in its proper geometry.
Geez, nothing ever goes as planned.
Oh and other than that, his work was great.
Jim
08-31-2017, 08:23 AM
#13
Registered User
Wow,
I think that I might have spoken too soon, I went and picked up my truck yesterday and he said everything is all finished but the front end it up kind of high ??
But since it was after 5:00 P.M. I just paid him and had to get back to work,
The truck feels a lot better but wow I can almost het my head in between the tire and the wheel well, no kidding it is a little high.
It looks more like a Pre Runner now, yea that high.
The parts store had given him a pair of Moog #5716S, according to the specifications they are a Chevy spring but they also fit a Dodge D-350.
I got under the truck and checked it out and there is no way I will accept these springs, they are dangerous.
I started taking some measurements and found that the upper control arm is about 1/2" from the rubber bump stop, I have no rebound, if I take a dip through an intersection, the control arm will hit the spring hanger, I can lift up on the truck and hit the bump stop, no way these will work, how could this spring work on this suspension.
There has to be a mistake somewhere.
The spring is physically to tall to fit the tower, maybe if the truck had a 1000 lb. plow on the front it might fit, I am afraid this would eventually damage the control arm or tear out a ball joint.
Checking the specs on the springs, the springs have the specs of the severe duty springs, and I specifically said I wanted the Heavy Duty Springs.
I am going to go back this morning and see what he will do to fix this, he is going to have to replace the springs with a shorter one.
Or I will go to Atlas Spring and have the coil shortened to keep the suspension in its proper geometry.
Geez, nothing ever goes as planned.
Oh and other than that, his work was great.
Jim
I think that I might have spoken too soon, I went and picked up my truck yesterday and he said everything is all finished but the front end it up kind of high ??
But since it was after 5:00 P.M. I just paid him and had to get back to work,
The truck feels a lot better but wow I can almost het my head in between the tire and the wheel well, no kidding it is a little high.
It looks more like a Pre Runner now, yea that high.
The parts store had given him a pair of Moog #5716S, according to the specifications they are a Chevy spring but they also fit a Dodge D-350.
I got under the truck and checked it out and there is no way I will accept these springs, they are dangerous.
I started taking some measurements and found that the upper control arm is about 1/2" from the rubber bump stop, I have no rebound, if I take a dip through an intersection, the control arm will hit the spring hanger, I can lift up on the truck and hit the bump stop, no way these will work, how could this spring work on this suspension.
There has to be a mistake somewhere.
The spring is physically to tall to fit the tower, maybe if the truck had a 1000 lb. plow on the front it might fit, I am afraid this would eventually damage the control arm or tear out a ball joint.
Checking the specs on the springs, the springs have the specs of the severe duty springs, and I specifically said I wanted the Heavy Duty Springs.
I am going to go back this morning and see what he will do to fix this, he is going to have to replace the springs with a shorter one.
Or I will go to Atlas Spring and have the coil shortened to keep the suspension in its proper geometry.
Geez, nothing ever goes as planned.
Oh and other than that, his work was great.
Jim
08-31-2017, 02:08 PM
#14
Banned
I don't work on a lot of two wheel drive fronts but I know this has been covered on the forum before. I don't believe you want anything heavy or severe duty, just your standard spring that would have been in the truck when new. I believe papecat was the one with the correct part numbers for the correct springs and all other front suspension parts needed to do the job correctly.
09-01-2017, 07:00 AM
#15
Administrator
Thread Starter
Ok, I took my truck back to Bear Frame and Wheel yesterday @ 8:30 A.M. and at that time he got on the phone and told his supplier that he had just installed the #5716s springs yesterday and they were way to long, the suspension was almost fully extended.
He had the warehouse sent him another set of #5716s springs, he said they will not be here for about 30 minutes so I went and got breakfast and call my wife to come and pick me up because I was going to leave my truck .
So around 09:30 I left the truck and he said to give him a until about 4:00 today and see what happens.
Around 4:00 P.M. I went to pick up the truck and when I pulled it was parked at the front of the shop and it was sitting kind of low and I was thinking out loud, he cut the springs too short, but the truck sure did look good.
He walked out to meet me and I had a puzzled look on my face like what the? and he said, you are not going go believe this but the new set of 5716s springs they sent, we set them side by side and the new pair they sent were almost 2" shorter than the other ones. (maybe the short springs are really #5716 not "S" suffix ones)
He had the truck all put back together so I could use it for work tonight and I told him I will drop it again tonight so it can be finished up tomorrow, the plan is he is going to cut the long springs down 1 inch and retain the spacer they are going to team up with Atlas Suspension to find out how much needs to be cut for the proper height.
I feel confident that tomorrow my truck will finally be finished.
Then I can wash it again, I washed it last week and then it rained again, 108* and raining.
The short time that I have been able to drive my truck, it rides solid, when I hit a bump where I would usually get a shudder, now it is just a solid thump.
Jim
He had the warehouse sent him another set of #5716s springs, he said they will not be here for about 30 minutes so I went and got breakfast and call my wife to come and pick me up because I was going to leave my truck .
So around 09:30 I left the truck and he said to give him a until about 4:00 today and see what happens.
Around 4:00 P.M. I went to pick up the truck and when I pulled it was parked at the front of the shop and it was sitting kind of low and I was thinking out loud, he cut the springs too short, but the truck sure did look good.
He walked out to meet me and I had a puzzled look on my face like what the? and he said, you are not going go believe this but the new set of 5716s springs they sent, we set them side by side and the new pair they sent were almost 2" shorter than the other ones. (maybe the short springs are really #5716 not "S" suffix ones)
He had the truck all put back together so I could use it for work tonight and I told him I will drop it again tonight so it can be finished up tomorrow, the plan is he is going to cut the long springs down 1 inch and retain the spacer they are going to team up with Atlas Suspension to find out how much needs to be cut for the proper height.
I feel confident that tomorrow my truck will finally be finished.
Then I can wash it again, I washed it last week and then it rained again, 108* and raining.
The short time that I have been able to drive my truck, it rides solid, when I hit a bump where I would usually get a shudder, now it is just a solid thump.
Jim