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Replaced afc diaphragm and now have no power!

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Old 03-24-2018, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith
Yeah, a little haze blow by is normal.
That alone made my day better! I have thought before that my motor was toast with only 128,xxx miles. I also have been doubtful that it was. Now I just need to figure out the injection pump issue. I guess the crud that I found in my gas tank must have just taken enough of a toll on the truck that the pump just needs a rebuild. I’m tempted to spend the extra money to have a shop rebuild it and flow test it and everything just so I know that all the pump is good and that the crud will give me problems no longer. The gooey stuff that I pulled out of the tank while emptying it looked like seaweed with about 40 years worth of slime and goo around it. That made me decide to have the tank cleaned professionally. It took a week in their dunk tank and a good steam cleaning to remove it all. I’ve just been too lazy since then to figure out why my fuel level gauge never works. The low fuel light works though. Maybe I can handle that electrical problem. Or I might ask a buddy who LOVES electrical stuff to figure it out. I’ll worry about that when I get the no start issue figured out. Hopefully I don’t end up having to replace injectors too.
Old 03-24-2018, 11:04 PM
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You could have a problem with your injectors also. I would go through the whole fuel system and clean everything scrupulously. It wouldn't take very much of that crud to plug something crucial up. I have the time so if it were mine I'd just clean everything but your situation might be different.
Old 03-25-2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith
You could have a problem with your injectors also. I would go through the whole fuel system and clean everything scrupulously. It wouldn't take very much of that crud to plug something crucial up. I have the time so if it were mine I'd just clean everything but your situation might be different.
Seems like good advice. Remove the injectors and crack each one open and clean everything inside and re-assemble. Also clean all the injector lines as well.
Old 03-25-2018, 06:25 AM
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You can access the hardened steel pin using a pair of medical hemostats, then reach down into the well and grab the pin and slide it in and out of the bore. (you can get a pair from H/Freight)

How fast does your engine crank?
If the battery is low, it might not turn fast enough to generate the heat needed for compression ignition.

If you have a good battery charger, leave it on the battery overnight on at least 10-amps so you have a good hot starting battery.

To rule out a contaminated fuel problem disconnect the inlet hose to the lift pump and with a short section of hose connected, drop it into a small 1 gallon container of fresh clean diesel fuel.

To rule out the ignition switch or wiring, connect the FSS to the battery (pos) terminal with a short jumper wire that you should have somewhere under your hood.

Listen and make sure you hear a click, I know you have already gutted the solenoid.

Optional
Make yourself a jumper wire and insert a 10-amp self resetting circuit breaker inline incase it shorts out on parts of the engine.

Check on the side of the injection pump and make sure the emergency shutdown lever is in the run position, the internal spring can break.

Jim
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Old 03-25-2018, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Lane
You can access the hardened steel pin using a pair of medical hemostats, then reach down into the well and grab the pin and slide it in and out of the bore. (you can get a pair from H/Freight)

How fast does your engine crank?
If the battery is low, it might not turn fast enough to generate the heat needed for compression ignition.

If you have a good battery charger, leave it on the battery overnight on at least 10-amps so you have a good hot starting battery.

To rule out a contaminated fuel problem disconnect the inlet hose to the lift pump and with a short section of hose connected, drop it into a small 1 gallon container of fresh clean diesel fuel.

To rule out the ignition switch or wiring, connect the FSS to the battery (pos) terminal with a short jumper wire that you should have somewhere under your hood.

Listen and make sure you hear a click, I know you have already gutted the solenoid.

Optional
Make yourself a jumper wire and insert a 10-amp self resetting circuit breaker inline incase it shorts out on parts of the engine.

Check on the side of the injection pump and make sure the emergency shutdown lever is in the run position, the internal spring can break.

Jim
The engine cranked pretty fast. I just charged the battery the other day and I tried starting it with my battery charger on 200 amp start mode too.
Old 03-25-2018, 02:18 PM
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The manual shut down lever is a great thought Jim.....had not considered that.
Old 03-25-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by thrashingcows
The manual shut down lever is a great thought Jim.....had not considered that.
I wish that had been the problem. I have checked that numberless times. I’m thinking it is time to have the pump rebuilt.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:15 PM
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Okay. So from Alec’s suggestion I am going to go over everything that has been done to the truck since I bought it. I bought the truck April of 2017 and had to replace transmission seals, so that happened and then when I drove it to really do a shakedown drive it was way down on power even to what anyone else that had drove it had ever experienced in any 12 valve. After about 100 miles of owning the truck I started having it shut off on me. I replaced fuel filter a couple times and it helped, but then I had it die on my when I stopped at a light. I limped it to a friends house by putting it in Nuetral at lights and revving it. When I got it there I called around and someone told me to check the lift pump. I took the outlet line off of it and found it was not pumping at all. So I replaced that and the truck ran better, but after about 10 minutes of running it started running rough again. I drove it home and it died on me as I pulled into my driveway. I changed the fuel filter again, but it still kept dying and the lift pump was still good. After calling around and looking at different things I decided to drop the tank and clean it out. When I dropped it I found a bunch of goo in there and couldn’t get it off on my own, so I took it to a radiator shop that also cleaned tanks. They called me after a couple days and said they would need to keep it until the next week. When I went and picked it up they said they had never seen a fuel tank that bad. They had to soak it in their solvent tank from the Tuesday, I believe, that I took it in through the weekend. They then steam cleaned it and it was finally clean. Here is the picture of what I first pulled out of the tank: Goo that came out of tank.So as you can see the previous owner did not clean out the tank as he said he would and when I started running diesel in the truck it broke all that crap apart and got it REALLY cycling through the fuel system. I got the tank put back in and I used a combination of carburetor cleaner, gas, and an air compressor to clean out the feed and return lines to the injection pump. Truck ran a little better, but still had VERY little power and ran rough. Just idling the truck rocked back and forth and the truck would lope sometimes. It also still died on me. I finally decided that I needed to get it to a shop as I was beyond what I had the knowledge and possibly equipment to fix. So I took it to the nearest shop that would even touch a 12 valve, which was 2 hours away, on a rented trailer and having a buddy tow it with his truck. At that time my other buddy who is a John Deere mechanic had just moved to my neighborhood and I didn’t know him, so he wasn’t an option at the time. The shop only had one mechanic who knew enough about the truck to be able to work on it and he was also really busy otherwise, so it was nearly 4 months before the truck was ready for me to pick it up. After picking it up I filled up the tank and drove on a backroad near the town back and forth to see how it did. It died on me still a couple times and so I put enough stanadyne additive in the truck to treat 120 gallons, plus I filled the filter with it per the shops suggestion when I called them about it. After that it seemed better so I drove it home. The mechanic from that shop told me that the pump really was in pretty bad shape, but he was trying to save me money and just cleaned stuff out and ran the cleaner through it. Up until I took it to the shop the FSS was gutted, but he put a new one in and got it to work. He had to pull it out multiple times and clean it out, but eventually got it to work. The truck also got a valve lash while it was there. With all this it was running smoother and wasn’t dying anymore. So I had gone through 2 filters since it had been picked up at the shop. One that the shop put on right before I picked it up, and changed it again when I filled one with the Stanadyne additive. I then made the trek back home and had the truck start running rough again about 25 minutes from home. So I pulled off and changed the filter again filling it with the additive again. It ran smoother still, but it still did not have hardly any power. It would do 70 miles per hour, but only just and that is the speed limit on the highway I drive to get to school and work from home. I also only was averaging 12.5 m.p.g. over the course of several tanks. Jim Lane recommended that I replace the AFC diaphragm as it could have a hole in it preventing it from getting more fuel when the boost came on. I figured this likely as the truck put out NO smoke when even flooring it and maybe a slight haze doing so in nuetral. That is even after turning the pre-boost screw in 1/2 turn from the otherwise stock pump. This is where the nightmare I am dealing with now all started. I pulled the AFC top off after getting the new diaphragm and pulled he pin out and put the new diaphragm on. When I put it back in I took the truck for a short drive to see if it made a difference and it did... except it made it worse! I then switched back to the old diaphragm and rove it again. It again started the same and I just took it for a short drive and had not difference. I did not floor it for extended periods of time, just enough to see if it would build boost or not. The only way it would was to get it up to about 35 very slowly and gen drop the gears down manually, increasing engine speed. Once the speed came down some the boost then dropped off and I was left with no power again. Panicked and even more confused and frustrated I limped it back home through the neighborhood and parked it. I shut it off and checked over things again. I then went to start it again and see if I could see anything with it running. This is when the real horror got even worse. The truck would not start and sputtered a couple times, but wouldn’t start. It then was getting dark and so I waited until the next day. The next day ambient temperature was about 50 degrees Fahrenheit. I decided to gut the FSS and bleed all 6 injectors and try again. The truck might have sputtered once, but didn’t really act like it was even trying to start. The engine was cranking at normal speed pre-startup, but slowly slowed down after about 15 seconds. After about 25 seconds of cranking I quit since I don’t want to burn up my starter. I then tested the lift pump again and it still works very well. I hooked the battery charger up and put it on 200 amp start mode and tried again. This time it didn’t really sputter at all that I noticed and still no smoke out exhaust. I put the charger on 40 amp charge and bled injectors again. There was no air any of thes times, but I just wanted to be sure. I then turned the charger down to 10 amp and let it charge for the rest of the day. The next day I went out and bled injectors again with there still being no air in them. Hopeful I tried starting the truck, but it still wouldn’t. Again, no smoke out the exhaust. Desperate I used one spray of starting fluid and she fired up after a couple seconds of cranking and ran like she was new. I let it run for a while and she kept running and gave it some revs and it acted normal. There was still no smoke out the exhaust though. I had been told that if I cranked he smoke screw (or pre-boost) down and then revved it it should unstuck the slide pin. I do not know if it did as I have not pulled it back apart to even check. The reason for that is that I then had to shut it off, and it shut off with the key, just like normal, and went and did what I needed to inside. I came back out about 10 minutes later and went to take it for a drive to see what it was like, but it wouldn’t start! No sputtering or smoke out exhaust. Bled injectors and again no air! I called the mechanic that I took it to for the tune up and told him everything. He said he bet the pump probably just finally gave up and it needed rebuilt or replaced. I plan to do as suggested and crack the return line and pump the lift pump to see what comes out. I kind of suspect me messing with the pump may have been th straw that broke the camels back, but I could be wrong. I’ll try and get a video I took of trying to start the truck on YouTube and post it here so you can see and hear.
Old 03-27-2018, 05:36 PM
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So just now I loosened the return line on the pump (17mm bolt) and no fuel came out. I pumped the lift pump for several minutes and nothing came out and the pumps got so they didn’t really feel like they were pumping, so I loosened it more and pumped more. I saw a small amount of fuel at that point. I pumped for a couple more minutes and then started tightening the bolt again and fuel really started dripping out, so I pumped some more and then tightened it back up. I then hooked up the battery charger on 200 amp start and tried starting it. After about 20 seconds of cranking it started to sputter, but no smoke out the exhaust. I kept cranking until I had cranked it for about 30 seconds and then decided I needed to let the starter cool off.

EDIT: I let the starter cool off for a few minutes and tried again. It sputtered more this time and had a little bit of white smoke coming out the exhaust. Not much, but I could see a little bit. I’m thinking I’ll change the fuel filter (even though it only has a few hundred miles on it. I will then try again once the battery is charged up again as it has drained some from the cranking, even though the battery charger has been hooked up on 200 amp start mode when cranking.
Old 03-27-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 1stGEN'93
So just now I loosened the return line on the pump (17mm bolt) and no fuel came out. I pumped the lift pump for several minutes and nothing came out and the pumps got so they didn’t really feel like they were pumping, so I loosened it more and pumped more. I saw a small amount of fuel at that point. I pumped for a couple more minutes and then started tightening the bolt again and fuel really started dripping out, so I pumped some more and then tightened it back up. I then hooked up the battery charger on 200 amp start and tried starting it. After about 20 seconds of cranking it started to sputter, but no smoke out the exhaust. I kept cranking until I had cranked it for about 30 seconds and then decided I needed to let the starter cool off.
Which kind of lift pump do you have? I had the diaphragm type and the primer lever broke as well as the shaft so that it wouldn't pump by hand or by cranking. Discovered this when truck wouldn't start when parked uphill. I got a piston pump which fixed the problem.

If you have a piston pump the primer button is a separate pump from the main piston.

In either case you should have lots of fuel coming out that banjo so it's either plugged up good or your lift pump is bad.

Edwin
Old 03-27-2018, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith
Which kind of lift pump do you have? I had the diaphragm type and the primer lever broke as well as the shaft so that it wouldn't pump by hand or by cranking. Discovered this when truck wouldn't start when parked uphill. I got a piston pump which fixed the problem.

If you have a piston pump the primer button is a separate pump from the main piston.

In either case you should have lots of fuel coming out that banjo so it's either plugged up good or your lift pump is bad.

Edwin
I have the stock style diaphragm lift pump, but it is fairly new. Probably only has about 1,000 miles on it. I just tested it the other day and it is still working. I pulled the outlet from the lift pump off and pumped it and a small geyser of fuel came out. I also bled the system with the lift pump to the 10mm bolt on the outlet side of the filter. I plan to upgrade to a LPHV piston pump at some point not far distant if I can just get the truck running. I pulled the banjo bot all the way off and was surprised that there are NO holes in it like any other banjo bolt. I used a brass wire brush and cleaned it up some as it had some deposits on it still from the WVO nightmare and had some down in the bore of it that I tried to clean out. Truck now cranks like a diesel with no grid heater and that hasn’t been plugged in in the cold, but faster. It doesn’t have as much white smoke out the exhaust, but there is some small but. I can just see it when I pay attention. Only thing I can think of otherwise is that maybe the fuel filter has somehow gotten plugged even with only a few hundred miles on it. Keep in mind I have been running a NAPA filter that doesn’t have the water in fuel sensor, but I don’t worry as much since I buy from high volume places, and it is rated at 4 microns. This makes it so it probably isn’t hard to clog. I just thought I maybe had gotten all the crud out, but there may still be a small amount that is getting caught in the filter. I am charging the battery overnight on 2 amp and letting the starter have a break. It has gotten better, so I am hoping. If not then I will probably send the pump off to be rebuilt. I’ve been told by several diesel mechanics before that I am on borrowed time with it since it had WVO ran through it.
Old 03-27-2018, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 1stGEN'93

I have the stock style diaphragm lift pump, but it is fairly new. Probably only has about 1,000 miles on it. I just tested it the other day and it is still working. I pulled the outlet from the lift pump off and pumped it and a small geyser of fuel came out. I also bled the system with the lift pump to the 10mm bolt on the outlet side of the filter. I plan to upgrade to a LPHV piston pump at some point not far distant if I can just get the truck running. I pulled the banjo bot all the way off and was surprised that there are NO holes in it like any other banjo bolt. I used a brass wire brush and cleaned it up some as it had some deposits on it still from the WVO nightmare and had some down in the bore of it that I tried to clean out. Truck now cranks like a diesel with no grid heater and that hasn’t been plugged in in the cold, but faster. It doesn’t have as much white smoke out the exhaust, but there is some small but. I can just see it when I pay attention. Only thing I can think of otherwise is that maybe the fuel filter has somehow gotten plugged even with only a few hundred miles on it. Keep in mind I have been running a NAPA filter that doesn’t have the water in fuel sensor, but I don’t worry as much since I buy from high volume places, and it is rated at 4 microns. This makes it so it probably isn’t hard to clog. I just thought I maybe had gotten all the crud out, but there may still be a small amount that is getting caught in the filter. I am charging the battery overnight on 2 amp and letting the starter have a break. It has gotten better, so I am hoping. If not then I will probably send the pump off to be rebuilt. I’ve been told by several diesel mechanics before that I am on borrowed time with it since it had WVO ran through it.
That banjo is the return line which has a small metering hole in it. It's easy to miss. Change the fuel filter to make sure it's not plugged up. I had crud in my tank which plugged filters in a few miles until I got the crud out. Now I carry a spare.

It's the simple things which can be really frustrating.

Good luck.

Edwin
Old 03-28-2018, 07:57 PM
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I give up

Truck starts every time with one small spray of starting fluid, but just cranks otherwise. I let it run for about 20 minutes and drove it some and it won’t build boost. I tried starting it with the fuel pin removed, but it didn’t get the slide pin unstuck. I’m guessing it won’t build boost, because it doesn’t get enough fuel to build boost. Injectors were bled again and found to have no air and sprayed fuel everywhere. My diesel mechanic buddy is going to come and try and look at it when he gets some time, so we will see what he says. If it isn’t just something simple that I missed that he can fix, then it will either get parked or sold. I don’t have the money left to put into it. Only other thing I have considered trying is putting Kroil in the bore instead of the WD-40 to try and get the pin unstuck. I have talked to one other person who had their pin get stuck all the way in and their truck wouldn’t start until they got it unstuck. I saw a video of one fellow who pulled the whole top half of he pump off and replaced the pin. His still started, but he had a low power problem. I really like this truck, but it seems to almost be more trouble than it is worth.
Old 03-28-2018, 08:41 PM
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Don't give up!

Here's what to do:

Get a genuine Bosch VE gasket and seal kit for about $20 on eBay.

Take the VE injection pump off the truck and completely disassemble it. Mind the settings of the fuel screw the AFC and the clocking of the throttle. Be careful you don't lose the tophat spring thingy on the end of the governor spring.

Clean every part thoroughly.

Put it back together.

Pull all of the injectors out and disassemble them and clean thoroughly. Reassemble and install. Clean all of the injector lines out completely and reinstall.

Clean the fuel line from the lift pump to the filter. Clean the line from the filter to the VE. Remove and clean the fuel heater. Remove and clean and check for function the lift pump. Blow out the lines from the fuel tank. I think you've already cleaned the tank and the pickup inside it.

When you reinstall the VE inj pump align the timing mark with the mark on the gear case. Mind the woodruff key that it doesn't fall out into the timing case. Stake the shaft next to the key to make it tight if necessary.

Bleed lines etc... and happy motoring.

You've got crud plugging things up and only a thorough cleaning is going to fix it.

Edwin
Old 03-28-2018, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith
Here's what to do:

Get a genuine Bosch VE gasket and seal kit for about $20 on eBay.

Take the VE injection pump off the truck and completely disassemble it. Mind the settings of the fuel screw the AFC and the clocking of the throttle. Be careful you don't lose the tophat spring thingy on the end of the governor spring.

Clean every part thoroughly.

Put it back together.

Pull all of the injectors out and disassemble them and clean thoroughly. Reassemble and install. Clean all of the injector lines out completely and reinstall.

Clean the fuel line from the lift pump to the filter. Clean the line from the filter to the VE. Remove and clean the fuel heater. Remove and clean and check for function the lift pump. Blow out the lines from the fuel tank. I think you've already cleaned the tank and the pickup inside it.

When you reinstall the VE inj pump align the timing mark with the mark on the gear case. Mind the woodruff key that it doesn't fall out into the timing case. Stake the shaft next to the key to make it tight if necessary.

Bleed lines etc... and happy motoring.

You've got crud plugging things up and only a thorough cleaning is going to fix it.

Edwin
Wow. That’s a lot of work, but I guess also a lot cheaper. Time to fill the back of the truck with parts again using it as a work bench I guess. I guess I know what I’m doing this Friday and next Monday since I have school off.

You are correct that I had the tank cleaned. I cleaned the pickup and sending unit as best I could and blew the feed and return lines from the tank to the lift pump and return to tank with the air compressor and carb cleaner and gas. I sure hope this taking apart and cleaning fixes it. Do I need to get a new slide pin too?


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