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1st Gen. Ram - All TopicsDiscussion for all Dodge Rams prior to 1994. This includes engine, drivetrain and non-drivetrain discussions. Anything prior to 1994 should go in here.
Unfortunately, this rebuilt pump was installed briefly and then pulled off so it's probably not locked at the correct timing.
What do I need to do in this case?
Originally Posted by Alec
It all depends on how you are planning to set the timing with the new pump.
The standard procedure for installing a pump that has not previously been installed on the engine assumes that the pump is locked at the correct timing to be installed when the engine is at TDC. The timing case is then marked with a new mark to match the timing mark cast into the pump flange, allowing for future installation and removal with the engine in any position.
Your rebuilt pump should have come locked by the rebuilder, and you should install it with the engine set to TDC and mark the case for reference. You can then tune things if and as you see fit from there.
Unfortunately, this rebuilt pump was installed briefly and then pulled off so it's probably not locked at the correct timing.
What do I need to do in this case?
If the internal timing of the pump was set correctly by the rebuilder, it should not make any difference, the way I understand it. It makes sense logically.If the engine is near tdc on #2, then you rotate the pump to the key, then the internal timing would be #2.Think about it, you put tdc #1 on top, install the pump and run it. You then remove it when the key is at 6 O'clock. You could then rotate the engine 20 times, leave it at #1 tdc, you would just rotate the pump to 12 O'clock (key at 6 O'clock, it's logical. Also, there are very few, if any, engines that shut down with a cylinder at tdc, compression and all...Mark
A barring tool is a pretty important tool to have if you plan on wrenching on your own truck. Does your rig still have the TDC pin on it? It is located down below the pump near the block. I snaps into a hole in the flywheel when the engine is at TDC #1. Setting the engine to TDC #1 is pretty easy if the pin is in place.If it isn't you can find TDC #1 by watching the #1 valves open and close. This will get you close...Mark
No, I don't have a barring tool. I was able to turn the engine backwards using the alternator bolt. I was never able to get the TDC pin to engage while pushing on it with a prybar and turning the engine at the same time.
However, there's a white mark on the pump shaft as pictured. I rotated the engine until it ended up at the up position. Does the white mark mean anything?
Originally Posted by maybe368
A barring tool is a pretty important tool to have if you plan on wrenching on your own truck. Does your rig still have the TDC pin on it? It is located down below the pump near the block. I snaps into a hole in the flywheel when the engine is at TDC #1. Setting the engine to TDC #1 is pretty easy if the pin is in place.If it isn't you can find TDC #1 by watching the #1 valves open and close. This will get you close...Mark
It appears to be close, it looks like someone marked it with white paint, I would just put that key way at 6 O'clock and call it good. It has been some years since I did mine and I couldn't recall if that key way was easily visible. Once you are sure that it is at tdc, I would mark the crank pulley and block so that it is easy to see. Someone had marked mine before I bought it...Mark
Correct me if I'm wrong. TDC is with the keyway at 6 o'clock position? I don't want the keyway to drop so should I position it at the 12 o'clock position like I've got it before I remove the pump?
Originally Posted by maybe368
It appears to be close, it looks like someone marked it with white paint, I would just put that key way at 6 O'clock and call it good. It has been some years since I did mine and I couldn't recall if that key way was easily visible. Once you are sure that it is at tdc, I would mark the crank pulley and block so that it is easy to see. Someone had marked mine before I bought it...Mark
Correct me if I'm wrong. TDC is with the keyway at 6 o'clock position? I don't want the keyway to drop so should I position it at the 12 o'clock position like I've got it before I remove the pump?
Yes, then when you install the new one, you turn the pump to line up...Mark
The position of the pump flange is what sets the timing. What, exactly, that position must be for a specific timing varies from pump to pump.
That is set by the rebuilder, correct?...Mark
I'm having trouble making this clear . . . It is pretty much like setting the timing on a gasoline engine with a distributor, in that no one would expect different distributors to mount in exactly the same position on the engine and give the same ignition timing. You do the final adjustment based on the particular set of points, engine, etc. on the engine.
Manufacturing variations make the timing of each pump turn out differently, and there is no provision to adjust this in the assembly process. So, after final assembly, the lift of the piston is measured directly by the rebuilder and the shaft locked at the correct position for installation at TDC.
I'm having trouble making this clear . . . It is pretty much like setting the timing on a gasoline engine with a distributor, in that no one would expect different distributors to mount in exactly the same position on the engine and give the same ignition timing. You do the final adjustment based on the particular set of points, engine, etc. on the engine.
Manufacturing variations make the timing of each pump turn out differently, and there is no provision to adjust this in the assembly process. So, after final assembly, the lift of the piston is measured directly by the rebuilder and the shaft locked at the correct position for installation at TDC.
OK, I have read that procedure before, they use a dial indicator to do that, right? Then if the engine is turned 180 degrees as well as the pump in order to put the woodfruff key on top shouldn't be a problem,correct? Thanks for the info...Mark
Then if the engine is turned 180 degrees as well as the pump in order to put the woodfruff key on top shouldn't be a problem,correct?
If you set the engine with number six at TDC, and set the pump using #6 delivery, then, yes everything would be fine, and the key would be at the top.
Further, if you have already marked the pump to the engine, you can take apart and reassemble things wherever you want, so long as you don't skip any teeth on the drive gear and realign the marks between the timing cover and pump flange . . .
Most people run more timing advance than the stock specification, as in almost any configuration, this gives better performance and efficiency at the "cost" of increased NOx emissions. ANd this timing adjustment is normally done by "ear" and seat of the pants performance tests. It is, however, a good idea to install a rebuilt pump as the re-builder set it, so you have a good base-line to work from.
If you set the engine with number six at TDC, and set the pump using #6 delivery, then, yes everything would be fine, and the key would be at the top.
Further, if you have already marked the pump to the engine, you can take apart and reassemble things wherever you want, so long as you don't skip any teeth on the drive gear and realign the marks between the timing cover and pump flange . . .
Most people run more timing advance than the stock specification, as in almost any configuration, this gives better performance and efficiency at the "cost" of increased NOx emissions. ANd this timing adjustment is normally done by "ear" and seat of the pants performance tests. It is, however, a good idea to install a rebuilt pump as the re-builder set it, so you have a good base-line to work from.
Got it, thank you. The rebuilt pump that I bought came with instructions to push the pump to the head, which is what I did. Would that indicate that they may have put a 366 spring or some other mod in the pump? The truck has pretty good pep....Mark
Ok, I'm all confused now. Keep in mind of the following.
- I have no manual
- The pump I'm receiving is used. It was removed from an engine that failed due to overheating.
- I have never done this job before.
Here is what I think I need to do. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Rotate the engine counterclockwise using the alternator until the key ends up at the 12 o'clock position.
2. Remove the defective pump.
3. Rotate the shaft on the used pump so that the key slot is at the 12 o'clock position.
4. Install used pump.
Will this work or am I missing something.
Originally Posted by maybe368
Got it, thank you. The rebuilt pump that I bought came with instructions to push the pump to the head, which is what I did. Would that indicate that they may have put a 366 spring or some other mod in the pump? The truck has pretty good pep....Mark
Ok, I'm all confused now. Keep in mind of the following.
- I have no manual
- The pump I'm receiving is used. It was removed from an engine that failed due to overheating.
- I have never done this job before.
Here is what I think I need to do. Correct me if I'm wrong.
1. Rotate the engine counterclockwise using the alternator until the key ends up at the 12 o'clock position.
2. Remove the defective pump.
3. Rotate the shaft on the used pump so that the key slot is at the 12 o'clock position.
4. Install used pump.
Will this work or am I missing something.
I think that is all you need to do. I thought that it was a rebuilt pump, so if it was running in a truck, there should be no problem doing that...Mark
11-01-2018, 09:15 AM
