HX35 upgrades discussion
09-01-2018, 10:12 AM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
Yes I have. But I'm considering that as a later "add on". Right now, as a daily driver it's a pain constantly watching the EGT. Way too easy to exceed the temp limits. Hit a hill it's almost game over even using a lower gear.
At the moment I'm gathering parts together to put my 60mm H1C on the 12cm gated housing from the HX35. Still gotta get my down pipe shortened for the gated housing. Just too many other thing taking priority, as usual.
At the moment I'm gathering parts together to put my 60mm H1C on the 12cm gated housing from the HX35. Still gotta get my down pipe shortened for the gated housing. Just too many other thing taking priority, as usual.
09-01-2018, 11:18 AM
#17
Registered User
Yes I have. But I'm considering that as a later "add on". Right now, as a daily driver it's a pain constantly watching the EGT. Way too easy to exceed the temp limits. Hit a hill it's almost game over even using a lower gear.
At the moment I'm gathering parts together to put my 60mm H1C on the 12cm gated housing from the HX35. Still gotta get my down pipe shortened for the gated housing. Just too many other thing taking priority, as usual.
At the moment I'm gathering parts together to put my 60mm H1C on the 12cm gated housing from the HX35. Still gotta get my down pipe shortened for the gated housing. Just too many other thing taking priority, as usual.
One mod I did was drill the scroll divider as detailed here:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...results-57304/
I have no before/after comparisons though. The link suggest a slight drop in EGTs. What I do notice is that I can get to ~1000* easily enough, but it it doesn't climb near as easily after that. I don't think I have as much for fuel mods though.
I didn't shorten my downpipe for the HX35 swap. I took the exhaust sections apart at the band clamps and re-installed it back the 1-2" or whatever. Only had it piped to about the driveshaft bearing back then.
09-01-2018, 05:25 PM
#18
Registered User
When comparing the H1C to the WH1C one would think the only difference would be the wastegate (W) but it isn't so. In addition to the 21 cm nozzle in the exhaust turbine for the H1C vs the smaller nozzle (not sure of the size and to lazy to look it up) on the WH1C the compressor side is totally different for the WH1C. It's bigger and moves more air.
With the H1C on my truck which had the VE turned up I could peg the pyro in short order. When I went to the WH1C in addition to much faster spoolup my EGT's went way down especially after I added the boost fooler to adjust it up to 34#. I'm still running the stock crossover to the intake. Someday I'll get a real 3" pipe type which should open things up a bit.
Edwin
With the H1C on my truck which had the VE turned up I could peg the pyro in short order. When I went to the WH1C in addition to much faster spoolup my EGT's went way down especially after I added the boost fooler to adjust it up to 34#. I'm still running the stock crossover to the intake. Someday I'll get a real 3" pipe type which should open things up a bit.
Edwin
The following users liked this post:
edwinsmith (09-01-2018)
09-02-2018, 06:10 AM
#20
Registered User
Wjcac
One thing you could do to improve performance of your stock WJCAC (water jacket charge air cooler) seperate the WJCAC water from engen coolent. The combination single raidator starts cooling at 180° IAT. /thermostat temp. 1%fuel injected is left on the table for every 10°F above 60°F its about air density(O2 content ). The difference in IAT from early and late 1st gen is expressed in the reduction of injector size to be able to maintain the 400ftqt limit of the 518/727 trans that results from "within 20-30°F of ambient"( tsb IC test procedure for 2nd gen) Eg 77f @ max boost should be no mre than 107° Vs 180-230°F min on the early= upto -5% Vs starting at --13% and -23%(at 230° coolent temperature) of the injected fuel results in power . At matched IAT the early should make more power than the small injector late model .
A front mount Intercooler or segregated cooling with separate fans. Is the only way your going to keep those EGT's in check.on long grades, with an early 1st gen. That 13-23+% unbrunt fuel is also jacking up your EGT's , spoiling harder , pushing you further off the right side of efficiency map. It all starts snowballing into the exponential EGT climb you see after you've been in it for a little while on a hill.
PS. if you ditched the stock resistive WJCAC and went straight in than theas figures are way low, IAT could be over 400°F at the kind of boost your pushing.. getting into the hx35 configuration may move you back into a higher efficiency range (% on map= boost :Vs heat thermal expansion.), but not as much as a front mount Intercooler.
---
any one know of a gage that would work with the stock IAT sender?
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
A front mount Intercooler or segregated cooling with separate fans. Is the only way your going to keep those EGT's in check.on long grades, with an early 1st gen. That 13-23+% unbrunt fuel is also jacking up your EGT's , spoiling harder , pushing you further off the right side of efficiency map. It all starts snowballing into the exponential EGT climb you see after you've been in it for a little while on a hill.
PS. if you ditched the stock resistive WJCAC and went straight in than theas figures are way low, IAT could be over 400°F at the kind of boost your pushing.. getting into the hx35 configuration may move you back into a higher efficiency range (% on map= boost :Vs heat thermal expansion.), but not as much as a front mount Intercooler.
---
any one know of a gage that would work with the stock IAT sender?
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
09-02-2018, 07:23 AM
#21
Administrator
One thing you could do to improve performance of your stock WJCAC (water jacket charge air cooler) seperate the WJCAC water from engen coolent. The combination single raidator starts cooling at 180° IAT. /thermostat temp. 1%fuel injected is left on the table for every 10°F above 60°F its about air density(O2 content ). The difference in IAT from early and late 1st gen is expressed in the reduction of injector size to be able to maintain the 400ftqt limit of the 518/727 trans that results from "within 20-30°F of ambient"( tsb IC test procedure for 2nd gen) Eg 77f @ max boost should be no mre than 107° Vs 180-230°F min on the early= upto -5% Vs starting at --13% and -23%(at 230° coolent temperature) of the injected fuel results in power . At matched IAT the early should make more power than the small injector late model .
A front mount Intercooler or segregated cooling with separate fans. Is the only way your going to keep those EGT's in check.on long grades, with an early 1st gen. That 13-23+% unbrunt fuel is also jacking up your EGT's , spoiling harder , pushing you further off the right side of efficiency map. It all starts snowballing into the exponential EGT climb you see after you've been in it for a little while on a hill.
PS. if you ditched the stock resistive WJCAC and went straight in than theas figures are way low, IAT could be over 400°F at the kind of boost your pushing.. getting into the hx35 configuration may move you back into a higher efficiency range (% on map= boost :Vs heat thermal expansion.), but not as much as a front mount Intercooler.
---
any one know of a gage that would work with the stock IAT sender?
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
A front mount Intercooler or segregated cooling with separate fans. Is the only way your going to keep those EGT's in check.on long grades, with an early 1st gen. That 13-23+% unbrunt fuel is also jacking up your EGT's , spoiling harder , pushing you further off the right side of efficiency map. It all starts snowballing into the exponential EGT climb you see after you've been in it for a little while on a hill.
PS. if you ditched the stock resistive WJCAC and went straight in than theas figures are way low, IAT could be over 400°F at the kind of boost your pushing.. getting into the hx35 configuration may move you back into a higher efficiency range (% on map= boost :Vs heat thermal expansion.), but not as much as a front mount Intercooler.
---
any one know of a gage that would work with the stock IAT sender?
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
The following users liked this post:
nonrev (09-03-2018)
09-02-2018, 09:40 AM
#22
Registered User
One thing you could do to improve performance of your stock WJCAC (water jacket charge air cooler) seperate the WJCAC water from engen coolent. The combination single raidator starts cooling at 180° IAT. /thermostat temp. 1%fuel injected is left on the table for every 10°F above 60°F its about air density(O2 content ). The difference in IAT from early and late 1st gen is expressed in the reduction of injector size to be able to maintain the 400ftqt limit of the 518/727 trans that results from "within 20-30°F of ambient"( tsb IC test procedure for 2nd gen) Eg 77f @ max boost should be no mre than 107° Vs 180-230°F min on the early= upto -5% Vs starting at --13% and -23%(at 230° coolent temperature) of the injected fuel results in power . At matched IAT the early should make more power than the small injector late model .
A front mount Intercooler or segregated cooling with separate fans. Is the only way your going to keep those EGT's in check.on long grades, with an early 1st gen. That 13-23+% unbrunt fuel is also jacking up your EGT's , spoiling harder , pushing you further off the right side of efficiency map. It all starts snowballing into the exponential EGT climb you see after you've been in it for a little while on a hill.
PS. if you ditched the stock resistive WJCAC and went straight in than theas figures are way low, IAT could be over 400°F at the kind of boost your pushing.. getting into the hx35 configuration may move you back into a higher efficiency range (% on map= boost :Vs heat thermal expansion.), but not as much as a front mount Intercooler.
---
any one know of a gage that would work with the stock IAT sender?
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
A front mount Intercooler or segregated cooling with separate fans. Is the only way your going to keep those EGT's in check.on long grades, with an early 1st gen. That 13-23+% unbrunt fuel is also jacking up your EGT's , spoiling harder , pushing you further off the right side of efficiency map. It all starts snowballing into the exponential EGT climb you see after you've been in it for a little while on a hill.
PS. if you ditched the stock resistive WJCAC and went straight in than theas figures are way low, IAT could be over 400°F at the kind of boost your pushing.. getting into the hx35 configuration may move you back into a higher efficiency range (% on map= boost :Vs heat thermal expansion.), but not as much as a front mount Intercooler.
---
any one know of a gage that would work with the stock IAT sender?
Dream Big Chisel Down To Reality.
Ok so I have a intercooler that is not integrated as your speaking air to air, I also run the 9mm injectors which I feel Perform quite well (marine) I will have a test thermistor attached to the intake elbow from the intercooler and I have a few turbos I can run a test on to give actual data. I still use a stock VE pump with regards to internals.
Now for the two prototype boards I’ve started to create one running with a simple timer switch with two charge elements and the other used for oil cooling but that’s startup shut down cycles I will attach the boards I am using once I nail down the code I can probably have the limits set and have this run auto pilot arduino is your friend.
09-02-2018, 10:45 AM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
I'm confused.... you're running a H1C (18/21cm) or HX35 (12cm) right now? I don't think you'll make anything cooler going to a smaller ex housing unless you pull back some fuel.
One mod I did was drill the scroll divider as detailed here:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...results-57304/
I have no before/after comparisons though. The link suggest a slight drop in EGTs. What I do notice is that I can get to ~1000* easily enough, but it it doesn't climb near as easily after that. I don't think I have as much for fuel mods though.
I didn't shorten my downpipe for the HX35 swap. I took the exhaust sections apart at the band clamps and re-installed it back the 1-2" or whatever. Only had it piped to about the driveshaft bearing back then.
One mod I did was drill the scroll divider as detailed here:
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...results-57304/
I have no before/after comparisons though. The link suggest a slight drop in EGTs. What I do notice is that I can get to ~1000* easily enough, but it it doesn't climb near as easily after that. I don't think I have as much for fuel mods though.
I didn't shorten my downpipe for the HX35 swap. I took the exhaust sections apart at the band clamps and re-installed it back the 1-2" or whatever. Only had it piped to about the driveshaft bearing back then.
09-02-2018, 10:53 AM
#24
Registered User
The WH1C came on the 1994 Dodge Cummins....it had a 54mm 8 blade comp wheel & a non-MWE cover & 12cm exhibit housing.
Holset changed to a HX35W in 1995 with everything the same but a MWE cover to improve the MAP of the turbo.
The HE351W is the same as a HX35 but with a larger 58mm 7 blade wheel, which is the max efficient size for flow through a HX35 frame.
Holset changed to a HX35W in 1995 with everything the same but a MWE cover to improve the MAP of the turbo.
The HE351W is the same as a HX35 but with a larger 58mm 7 blade wheel, which is the max efficient size for flow through a HX35 frame.
Last edited by nascar mark; 09-02-2018 at 11:03 AM. Reason: spelling
09-02-2018, 10:57 AM
#25
Registered User
It's in my signature. My current set up is an H1C with a GDS 60mm compressor side and a non waste gated 16cm turbine housing. Basically a 60/60/16. I bought an HX35W (wanted an HX35) to replace it after my HE351W plan fell apart. Rather than throw the HX35W on there as is, I'm going to try the 12cm gated housing on my H1C first. along with the 4" exhaust. I think I'm also going to drill through the partition as well.
09-02-2018, 11:05 PM
#26
NASCAR is the guru when it comes to these HX35’s. 11 years ago for my current needs he suggested a hybrid HX35 coupled with a 16 cm exhaust housing when he was at PDR. He didn’t try to sell me what I didn’t need. To this day I still run that set up. Quick to spool for in town driving, large enough for long freeway drives up steep grades, and hardly, hardly ever hits 1000 degrees in EGT’s. Whenever I do decide to upgrade, Marks the one to call on.
The following users liked this post:
nonrev (09-03-2018)
09-03-2018, 10:13 AM
#27
Registered User
Thread Starter
What is an MWE cover?
09-03-2018, 11:06 AM
#29
Registered User
Cougar - you’ve been going through angst on various forums with your eBay turbo ordeals. Why not take the advice of a guy in the know like Mark?
Forum experts would love to spend your money as a testbed for future reference, but I gather you’re looking for a balance between price and reliability.
My DieselTuff/PDR hybrid + wide angle injectors flat out screamed, cost me dearly in tires.
Pump was set to make 1250f unloaded, and it was at about 38psi if I recall. Wastegate nice, but not needed on that well balanced setup.
Hands down the best 300ish HP single turbo setup for a first gen that I’ve tried. Worked great with the stock (stall) converter, and played as good with the TCS (DTT) 89% tighter fluid coupling converter as well.
The HE351W can only be better.
Forum experts would love to spend your money as a testbed for future reference, but I gather you’re looking for a balance between price and reliability.
My DieselTuff/PDR hybrid + wide angle injectors flat out screamed, cost me dearly in tires.
Pump was set to make 1250f unloaded, and it was at about 38psi if I recall. Wastegate nice, but not needed on that well balanced setup.
Hands down the best 300ish HP single turbo setup for a first gen that I’ve tried. Worked great with the stock (stall) converter, and played as good with the TCS (DTT) 89% tighter fluid coupling converter as well.
The HE351W can only be better.