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Fuel in OIL - HELP!

Old 10-09-2017, 05:48 PM
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Fuel in OIL - HELP!



My dipstick shows way over-full and a black oil/fuel mixture is coming out of the overflow tube coming out of the tappet cover at the back of the engine. The return lines are dry as well as the area around them.

Is there any way, other than the front seal of the VE pump for fuel to get in the oil? I'm talking about a major flow. A steady stream out of the crankcase vent.

Edwin
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:50 PM
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Front seal of the VE pump OR a torn diaphragm lift pump would be my first two guesses.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith View Post


My dipstick shows way over-full and a black oil/fuel mixture is coming out of the overflow tube coming out of the tappet cover at the back of the engine. The return lines are dry as well as the area around them.

Is there any way, other than the front seal of the VE pump for fuel to get in the oil? I'm talking about a major flow. A steady stream out of the crankcase vent.

Edwin
It's also possible for fuel to enter via the lift pump diaphragm. I would pull that first.

I really feel bad for you, Edwin. Not much good luck with the dodge lately...if you lived here, I'd tell ya to bring it on over...

Edit:

Ollie beat me to it
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:56 PM
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You gotta love this place.
4 minutes after posting a problem, you have two answers to the issue.
I agree with T-man, I would start with the LP as it is cheap and easy.
I would also get that oil/fuel mix changed out ASAP!
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by oliver foster View Post
You gotta love this place.
4 minutes after posting a problem, you have two answers to the issue.
I agree with T-man, I would start with the LP as it is cheap and easy.
I would also get that oil/fuel mix changed out ASAP!
Yes! I love it when I can post a question and get several answers within 15 minutes.

I have a piston lift pump which I installed a couple months back when the diaphragm pump quit. Apparently the increased pressure blew the front seal out of the VE.

What's the best way to check the pressure? I don't have a permanent fuel pressure gauge. How do I reduce the pressure? Is there a spring I change in the piston pump?

Edwin
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by oliver foster View Post
You gotta love this place.
4 minutes after posting a problem, you have two answers to the issue.
I agree with T-man, I would start with the LP as it is cheap and easy.
I would also get that oil/fuel mix changed out ASAP!
It why I come here half a dozen times a day....

Lol


The engine internals will be soooooooo clean...
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by NJTman View Post
It why I come here half a dozen times a day....

Lol


The engine internals will be soooooooo clean...
"It's like taking a dose of drain cleaner. Sure! It'll clean you out but it leaves you all hollow inside."
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith View Post
Yes! I love it when I can post a question and get several answers within 15 minutes.

I have a piston lift pump which I installed a couple months back when the diaphragm pump quit. Apparently the increased pressure blew the front seal out of the VE.

What's the best way to check the pressure? I don't have a permanent fuel pressure gauge. How do I reduce the pressure? Is there a spring I change in the piston pump?

Edwin
Ugh... The reason I stuck with a stock Cummins made pump....

Fitting above the fuel pump is where you can connect a fp gauge. You should have a fp , exh temp, and boost in the truck before any upgrades....

If your VE has never been rebuilt, I'm afraid you may be right.

A defective LP can mimick the issue...
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:13 PM
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I was thinking you might have "upgraded" your LP a while ago, but couldn't remember...
You need to make sure you get a low pressure LP not just a stock 2nd gen one as it will run a pressure with is high enough your front seal on the VE is in jeopardy.

I got a fuel pressure port, basically a Schrader valve, from Geno's installed on my 12Vs and a temporary fuel pressure gauge that I can check any of my trucks if I suspect problems.

The fuel pressure port replaces the banjo bolt on the fuel line from the LP IIRC.
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:17 PM
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There is a spring which you can change in the LP.
Some people here mention getting a spring from Fastenal that worked on the cheap. Or I have seen them offered from the Hungry Diesel guy.

I installed a LPLP on the 12V on my Gauntlet RC project.
I checked the fuel pressure on it the first time I fired it up. I seem to remember 14 PSI or so is what I got.

I am off to the shop to have a beer and swap in a fresh fuel filter in Poncho as it was faintly stumbling under WOT on the last drive. I will check back in later...
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by oliver foster View Post
I was thinking you might have "upgraded" your LP a while ago, but couldn't remember...
You need to make sure you get a low pressure LP not just a stock 2nd gen one as it will run a pressure with is high enough your front seal on the VE is in jeopardy.

I got a fuel pressure port, basically a Schrader valve, from Geno's installed on my 12Vs and a temporary fuel pressure gauge that I can check any of my trucks if I suspect problems.

The fuel pressure port replaces the banjo bolt on the fuel line from the LP IIRC.
Here is the pump that I installed.

Amazon Amazon

I was told that it was the low pressure pump that I needed for the VE. Did I misunderstand? If that's the problem I can change a spring easy enough. Replacing the seal in the VE is a little more work but not something I haven't done before. The VE was a rebuild installed a little over a year ago.

Thanks for your help.

Edwin
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:39 PM
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Edwin, I'm sorry to hear on your troubles. So, here's what I know, not saying your situation is identical.
About the same exact time you were awaiting a new fuel line that accompanies that Amazon lift pump you had already installed, there was a member on here named JoelB that went thru your exact scenario. He was frustrated, very very frustrated, and had also bought a lift pump inexpensively from either eBay or Amazon. If you get your timelines organized and search up on the topics you had awaiting that line, you will see JoelB's posts. I also believe NascarMark had popped in and said to try and source pumps with a specific number series on them, as these were true Lehigh volume, low pressure quality pumps.

Now, what had happened thru a series of PM's between me and Joel, was that he ended up having his lift pump first looked at by a local Bosch diesel injection shop. There were certain innards in that cheap pump that failed. So, Joel goes on and buys the quality pump, from where I am unsure of.

Round two- after that lift pump swap, oil still in fuel. This time he takes the truck in and leaves it with that shop. Turns out it also was his pump seal. So he had two items fail, both being the sources where fuel enters and mixes with the oil. I'm hoping Joel will see this and pipe in, and possibly correct me if I have any explanation errors. I will PM him to have him offer his input.

Good luck with all that, Edwin.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bigragu View Post
Edwin, I'm sorry to hear on your troubles. So, here's what I know, not saying your situation is identical.
About the same exact time you were awaiting a new fuel line that accompanies that Amazon lift pump you had already installed, there was a member on here named JoelB that went thru your exact scenario. He was frustrated, very very frustrated, and had also bought a lift pump inexpensively from either eBay or Amazon. If you get your timelines organized and search up on the topics you had awaiting that line, you will see JoelB's posts. I also believe NascarMark had popped in and said to try and source pumps with a specific number series on them, as these were true Lehigh volume, low pressure quality pumps.

Now, what had happened thru a series of PM's between me and Joel, was that he ended up having his lift pump first looked at by a local Bosch diesel injection shop. There were certain innards in that cheap pump that failed. So, Joel goes on and buys the quality pump, from where I am unsure of.

Round two- after that lift pump swap, oil still in fuel. This time he takes the truck in and leaves it with that shop. Turns out it also was his pump seal. So he had two items fail, both being the sources where fuel enters and mixes with the oil. I'm hoping Joel will see this and pipe in, and possibly correct me if I have any explanation errors. I will PM him to have him offer his input.

Good luck with all that, Edwin.
I didn't see the post from JoelB but I found the original thread I was going by:

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...-93722/page10/

mknittle at Post #149 says the part number should be for the HVLP pump for the VE.

HOWEVER! My pump looks different from the the pump at this link: https://oregonfuelinjection.com/shop...ial/feed-pump/

I guess I'll have to start pulling things apart to figure out what failed. I think I can pull the lift pump and test it for pressure. Can the lift pump fail and dump a large volume of fuel into the crankcase? I know some diaphragm pumps I have looked at had a relief to allow fuel leaking through the diaphragm to just dump on the ground rather than into the crankcase but I don't know about the piston pump.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by edwinsmith View Post
I didn't see the post from JoelB but I found the original thread I was going by:

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...-93722/page10/

mknittle at Post #149 says the part number should be for the HVLP pump for the VE.

HOWEVER! My pump looks different from the the pump at this link: https://oregonfuelinjection.com/shop...ial/feed-pump/

I guess I'll have to start pulling things apart to figure out what failed. I think I can pull the lift pump and test it for pressure. Can the lift pump fail and dump a large volume of fuel into the crankcase? I know some diaphragm pumps I have looked at had a relief to allow fuel leaking through the diaphragm to just dump on the ground rather than into the crankcase but I don't know about the piston pump.
Edwin, go on Dieseltuff.com's website. Under the firstgen stuff, you'll find that piston lift pump upgrade. The description of the series of numbers on that pump I believe are spelled out there. With that series of numbers, see if that's on your pump.

Wish I would have wrote those series of numbers down. Maybe I'll see if NascarMark can reply to this tread, as he knows the numbers.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:05 PM
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Edwin, go to page 4 of these treads, look up JoelB's tread on finding a chunk of metal in his oil. That was a part of his lift pump. I believe he tells which pump he bought on that tread. Your own piston LP tread should be close by.
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