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Finaly got the motor torn apart and in the machine shop. Two cylinders were BAD!!!

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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 08:53 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by fatt
I'm almost certain they can be sleeved.
ANY engine can be sleeved...Mark
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 08:57 PM
  #17  
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Sorry for all the posts, but you guys hit my wheelhouse. Have you ever heard the term "blue printing"? This is the process of putting ALL the tolerances in the EXACT middle of the range. Any good racing engine is both balanced and blue printed...Mark
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 09:29 PM
  #18  
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If it were my motor and spinning it past 4000 rpm I would blue print it.
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 09:40 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by 67HotRod
If it were my motor and spinning it past 4000 rpm I would blue print it.
I agree with that, but I would definitely balance. Even a diesel.

And since it's a 6 Cylinder, in-line or not, I would do all the cylinders the same.

Blue printing a diesel can be good, but it might take forever to break it in. Those old 12 valves were known to break in at 50K, today they are 100K. Cummins has a higher standard then other makers in this size. That's because it's this same engine is used in many industrial applications too.

A close to blueprint is good enough. I've built many a pumper in the last 45 years. I cannot ever recall losing one or may heats for that matter.
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 09:49 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Polaraco
I agree with that, but I would definitely balance. Even a diesel.

And since it's a 6 Cylinder, in-line or not, I would do all the cylinders the same.

Blue printing a diesel can be good, but it might take forever to break it in. Those old 12 valves were known to break in at 50K, today they are 100K. Cummins has a higher standard then other makers in this size. That's because it's this same engine is used in many industrial applications too.

A close to blueprint is good enough. I've built many a pumper in the last 45 years. I cannot ever recall losing one or may heats for that matter.
X2 any and all engines NEED to be balanced, including the flywheel and clutch (or flex plate and converter). With the Cummins, it could mean the difference between "just" 300 k miles and 800k...Mark
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Old Jul 8, 2011 | 09:52 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Polaraco
And since it's a 6 Cylinder, in-line or not, I would do all the cylinders the same.
It would likely be impossible to balance an engine that was not all the same...Mark
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 12:07 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by maybe368
What you need to do is look at the tolerances in the FSM and try to hit the middle of the range. You should not guess on this stuff. The Non-IC engines are not sleeved from the factory, but any engine can be sleeved. I am not sure when they started sleeving the engines from the factory. This is where a good machinist really earns his money. There are tolerances for rings, pistons, ring gaps, out of round, you get the picture. I would take it to a good machinist and he can tell you what it needs. Bore it out the MINIMUM that will bring it into tolerance...Mark
I don't believe there is a 5.9 or 6.7 that uses sleeves like big motors do, they can be sleeve by a machine shop with press in sleeves if you ruin the cylinder walls
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 12:29 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Purplezr2
I don't believe there is a 5.9 or 6.7 that uses sleeves like big motors do, they can be sleeve by a machine shop with press in sleeves if you ruin the cylinder walls
You are probably right, I was just repeating what a friend told me. He said early ones weren't and laters were, but I didn't check......Mark
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 12:54 AM
  #24  
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I would not worry about "blueprinting" it. If you measure everything out, you will be surprised how close they are. The main objective of blueprinting is to get the deck height where you want it. The factory usually is within 0.005". They use different "grades" of pistons to accomplish this.
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 01:13 AM
  #25  
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On these engines you can go half MM or 1MM then you would need to sleeve the cylinder....
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 06:56 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by whiskers
It's pretty simple. Look up the original bore spec and go .040 over. That is why they send you .040 over pistons. The proper clearance is automatic. Your shop will know what to do when you tell them bore it .040 over.
That is a recipe for disaster. You coud trust the shop to look up all this stuff, and then to bore to the right size but I wouldn't....not in a million years.
cheers,
Douglas
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 07:48 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Douglas2
That is a recipe for disaster. You coud trust the shop to look up all this stuff, and then to bore to the right size but I wouldn't....not in a million years.
cheers,
Douglas
Blueprinting includes main bearing clearance, rod bearing clearance, cam bearing clearance, valve stem clearance, etc., etc., this is why a good machinist is ssencial...Mark
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 05:36 PM
  #28  
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I work at a machine shop and the machinist said a 5.9 can be sleeved, he's done a half dozen or so that still run around town.
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainChrysler
no!!!

That's a good way to need custom pistons or new block.
The original pistons and cylinders are made to the factory tolerances. When you order 40 over you get that you bore it 40 over and you still have the factory tolerance. But if you order some other manufacturers pistons they will tell you what tolerances to use.
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Old Jul 9, 2011 | 07:37 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by maybe368
Forgive me, but are you saying that you would install them without checking? I don't care how well something is made, it can be done badly. The boring bar may have been badly adjusted or the part was badly made. I leave NOTHING to chance and I don't trust anything that my eyes don't see, especially if it is going into my engine. Also, as I said before, why 40 over, if 10 or 20 would do it? Remember, the more metal that you take off, the closer to the water galley you get and the higher temperatures that follow. I would do the minimum that brings it into tolerance,,,IMHO...Mark
Forgive me, but no where in my posts did you see me say do anything without checking. I think everyone missed my point. The math is simple, but the variables are enormous. That's why I said let a good machinist do the work. He will automatically do the proper research with the motor specs in relationship to the piston specs. I have been rebuilding engines since the 60's. The first thing I wouldn't do is order 40 over pistons and try to build around them. I have seen pistons that require as little as .003 clearances. I have seen them that need .010. But 5 to 7 seems to be average. You have to do the research first.You check the cylinders first and see where you can go. I wouldn't bore any engine to 40 unless it was a last resort. But this lad has bought his pistons first. Did no one grasp that?
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