different fueling idea, dual VE's!
 

Yeh, I'm going to throw it out there. I'm thinking about building a dual pump engine for my pulling truck. I have had this warped idea for a long time now. [roll] I figured I'd stick with the VE and keep it a first gen but, put something a little different together at the same time. KTA has a great pump head out there but this way it's my setup. Any thoughts or suggestions/criticisms.

I'm headed to an indoor charity pull in Kearney, Nebraska on Saturday. I might be the only first gen there. I be posting some photos of the truck with the weight rack, traction bars, and 5" stack through the hood. Hopefully some good video as well.

Hey, wannadiesel, I have my fuel system components nearly gathered. Its a little different than your setup for originalities sake. I can post pics if you want.

Already Been Done
 

I don't think its possible to have dual 6cyl VE pumps power a 6cyl engine

The tractor you are thinking of is from Holland and is either a 6.2 or a 6.5 turbo diesel with a hx50 charger. Runs pretty good.

Two eight cylinder pumps seems to work good for his 8 cyl motor so I would think that two 6 cyl pumps would work to fuel a 6 cyl motor?

Here's a 12 cylinder pump on a six cylinder engine ~

http://www.scheiddiesel.com/images/JohnDeerePump1.gif

I may be wrong but I believe they add another injector for 2 injectors per cylinder. I think that'd take a lot of work on our engines (or any engine for that matter.

I too have toyed with this idea for some time now. Granted, the amount of work, expense and trial and error (down time) make a p-pump the only practical and logical course of action here. However since a 500+ hp pickup truck isn't logical or practical either why not try to make it work? The real problem would be with syncronizing the injector pulses. You would have to use the exact same length lines but the pump would be further away so careful routing would be necessary. I think running 2 lines parrallel and then having a 2 into 1 adapter machined for the top of the injectors would be the easiest and eliminate the need for dual injectors. What would be cool would be to extend the shaft of the original pump out the front of the cover with a seal on it so you could run a dry belt. With this setup you could have an adjustable timing gear on the second pump and actually dial in a little duration. I think dual ve pumps would be a force to reckoned with. This is just an exercise in creative thinking and brainstorming.[coffee]

send me some specs on the dual inline injector hook-ups and I maybe be able to machine you some.

And if you do, draw some pics with that info so my internal gerbil doesnt trip when running overtime :D

I guess it would be possible to run twin pumps through one injector - and it would be better if they were timed differently so they weren't fighting each other. Have one timed at say 22 degrees and the other set at zero, kind of an "afterburner" effect. It'd take a heck of a lot of air to clean it up!

I Accidentally Found It
 

[director] Here you go:

http://www.thedieselpage.com/readers/kolkman.htm

I knew I had saw that rig somewhere.[roll]

I would think you could run something similar to that setup on its side for a 6bt. Run a gear off the factory pump location to run the dual pumps. Run adjustable cam gears off something like a rice rocket dohc car?
Just ideas.

This sounds like it would be a great winter project for me this year if
a) the funds permit
b) I still have the truck this winter
c) my wife doesn't find out what it is I plan on doing.
[laugh]

Now if someone was to do this. Would it be more practical to splice the two lines at the injector like I had originally thought or splice them right off the pumps into one line like I saw on that tractor? I would think that the latter would be the easies however in doing that wouldn't you be compounding the pressure which would rupture the line? The idea here is to gain a little pressure to allow a better atomizing injector while still flowing huge volume. But if you just dump both pumps into one line wouldn't that double the original line pressure which would be beyond the pop pressure for any injector. Maybe you could put in some kind of pressure regulator? I also thought that if a splice into one line would work than I'd probably get some kind of block made up to mount the lines. There's a hydraulic assemblies place by where I live that could make it up no problem. The only problem would be the money for the supporting equipment. Like the Piers racing twins I'd need to burn the fuel. I guess a single FASS 200GPH pump would feed the duo well enough. Of course, I'd need a nicer truck to grace with this setup!

The pressure issue is easy to solve. You'd just need an injector line that is larger than the diameter of the original. That way you'd have the volume but not too much pressure. I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner.[duhhh]
You wouldn't want to go to double the size but somewhat larger that way you can increase the pressure but not beyond what an injector can handle.

Sorry guys, been away for a while.

I have seen the video of the 6.5 with stanadyne dual fuelers and the turbo is an HX50! If you watch closely the video shows a close up of the engines fuel injection system while running. The lines are equal length up to the t-fitting and equal length after. Also, one should note in the video how the builder pulls the return line on one pump and pinches the line. Then the other pump. both times the engine tone changes. Why? Because both pumps are running at idle which is the hard to believe part. I always thought it would run away with both pumps pushing at idle. The system I have in mind is not exactly the same. Here's the idea in a nutshell.

I thought a guy could pull the oil filler neck off the timing cover and swap the front rocker box out for one with oil filler provisions. A drive would the need to be fabricated that would retain the main pump drive gear and extend out of the timing case adapting back to the tapered VE pump shaft end. It would have to be sized for a currently made seal. A timing gear (gates drive belt type) would attach to the end of the shaft and be retained by a original type nut. A bracket would need to be fabbed that would support a second rotary pump with a belt timing gear. The exact dimensions of the pump location on the bracket would be determined by the available common belt sizes. The stud locations dependent on correct pump orientation at desired plunger lift @ TDC. The t-fittings on the injector lines might have to be fitted with some sort of check valve much like delivery valves have, this way if a pump fails the engine still runs as line pressure is maintained. I'm thinking p-pump injector bodies are the way to go as the inlets are larger. The engine start provisions would need to be shut down in the second pump to prevent an initial and uncontrollable surge in power when it kicks in.

In the system I see the second pump being on demand using redundant pressure switches. The ignition switch would supply power to a normally open switch in the oil filter adapter, the to a normally open switch in the intake manifold. The system would only operate if 1) the ignition was in the "run" position" 2) if the engine had adequate oil pressure 3) if there was X amount of boost present in the intake manifold.

The dual pump would allow a stupid amount of fuel to be delivered to the injector at very low pump settings.

I've really lost it haven't I?