WroughtIron

Moved from 12v drivetrain forum:

Hello! I tried a search but was not able to find this information so I apologize if its been covered. I have been using the awesome how to threads on this forum (lurking) for some time and have usually been able to get all the information I needed to get the job done.

I recently did the KDP on my 1991.5 W350 5 Speed Chassis Cab with no A/C and manual everything. I also pulled my injection pump to seal a leak at the back side of the KSB solenoid. I replaced the front crank seal and the timing cover gasket, set the valves and changed all filters and fluids. After bleeding all the injectors it would not fire, it would buck and kick. I re checked the valves and the mark on the timing cover, bumped 1/8''.

I then cranked the injection pump all the way to the passenger side with a ratchet strap an it fired up, some white smoke but smoothed out and went away. I put the injection pump back in after sealing the timing cover...stupid.... and I think I may have bumped a tooth on injection pump gear that retarded it a tooth. Does this sound reasonable to assume?

I do not want to pull the pump again, it was a lot of work removing all the lines and mounts and bleeding the system again, it would be much easier to remove the timing cover to confirm this and set the gear in the right place. I am really cheap and there is less than an hour on the front crank seal, can I reuse the seal? They are over 100 bucks at Cummins were I am at. I still have the plastic installation sleeve. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

edwinsmith

If it was running before you moved the pump timing then you haven't jumped a tooth. Was the key on the pump shaft engaged with the slot in the gear? If not then you have a problem. If the key is missing then you have a problem. Take the nut and washer off the pump shaft and look carefully to see the key is in place and lined up with the slot in the gear.

WroughtIron

The key is still in place, I used a light and camera to check. It ran great before, and it runs good now. My concern is the mark on the pump and case was lined up before, after I had to crank the pump all the way to the head to get it to run. I did not lock the pump when I removed it so that may have caused the problem. I was worried that in the process of installing the pump I bumped the timing gear. I was going to pull the cover and check the marks on the gear, I just didn't want to unnecessarily buy another crank seal.

edwinsmith

Unfortunately there's no way to tell without pulling the timing cover. I've had my pump out several times and I have never caused the gear to jump time. I use a gear puller to screw into the two threaded holes in the gear and and pop the pump shaft out of the gear.

Somebody else will have to chime in to say if it's even possible to get the engine to run if the gear has jumped time. That would be a very substantial timing change and I don't think you can rotate the pump far enough to compensate but I'm not sure. Have you seen the videos on YouTube showing how to R&R the VE pump?

Edwin

WroughtIron

Thanks for the help. I think I am going to bite the bullet and pull the cover. Has anyone ever reused a front crank seal or does everyone install a new seal every time? Its only been on for a hour of run time so it is still new, I would hate to get it back together and have it leak. At the same time I would rather have the money in my pocket.

edwinsmith

As long as you're careful the seal should be OK. Can you use the installation sleeve over again to get the cover back on? I've never done a Cummins but I've done lots of gasser seals and they turned out OK unless the seal surface is damaged.

WroughtIron

I still have the installation sleeve, I'll see if I can get it to work. If I recall correctly I had the sleeve fall out while pressing the seal into the cover and was able to get it back into the seal.

Angry Johnny

If the cover was on when you put the pump on there is no way it jumped time. The pump probably just had air in it. Move the timing back and see if it will run now.

WroughtIron

Could it really be that simple? I'll give that a try today. Another thing I thought of yesterday was could it be my ksb? The plate on the back side was the source of my leak. I pulled the front and rear ksb covers to replace the o rings. Thinking back I just reconneced the line to the front cover. Do you need to bleed this line?

Alec

I agree with Johnny.

The KSB lines and advance mechanism do not need any special bleeding, etc. If for some reason you installed a regular banjo bolt in the pump return line, instead of the one with a restricted orifice, it could cause your problem, but I doubt that is the case. FWIW KSB really only refers to the solenoid/cover/external fuel return line on the driver's side of the pump. Technically, the plate whose gasket I believe you replaced covers the high pressure side of the dynamic timing piston in the bottom of the pump. While the KSB does alter the function of the pump's dynamic timing, the dynamic timing is separate, and functions with or without the KSB.

WroughtIron

Okay this afternoon I'll try and pull the pump back to 1/8 above mark and see if it runs, thanks for the help guys.

WroughtIron

Well worked late last night and came home to a stone dead battery and -10 outside. Ill get to it Monday afternoon and let you guys know if that was the problem.