I know that one of you fellows posted the bosch part number for a high speed governor spring for the VE pump.<br><br>I have just spent the past twenty minutes in the search section here looking for that post, and I just can't find it -- it is driving me crazy!<br><br>Can anyone out there help?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Alec

 

Aslitch, I posted the part numbers sometime back.<br><br>The spring part number is Bosch# 1464650366 <br><br>It is a 3200 governer spring that allows your pump to add fuel up to 3000 rpm instead of starting to defuel at around 2700. This spring is used in the Marine VE pump applications, stationary engines and also on the high performance VE pumps. They are not very high and cost under 40 bucks.<br><br>HOWEVER, I had talked to Piers about fueling over 3k. He plainly stated that our pumps would not handle spinning in excess of 3k. Although, jughead and some others have put this spring on there 1st gens with the auto tranny with very good results. This is not the only spring out there, in fact, the VW Rabbit diesel used the same pump as ours, as well as many Land Rover units. Springs varying from 2k to 5k is very common when searching for one. Just be careful and dont use the springs FULL potential.

 

OBR- where does the spring go on/in the pump?

 

Jbolt,

Here is a link to a non aneriod AFC boost head VE pump. You can see that the governer spring connects to the control lever and the tension lever. Now, if you look at your pump where the aneroid AFC head mounts on top of the pump, you will se 3 allen head screws around the pump. Most of them have yellow paint on the allen head. You take this top cover off to gain access to the spring.

 

Okie- I've been trying to grasp how all the internal mechanical parts work in these things. The picture in the link really doesn't help. I take it the govener spring pulls on the control lever which inturn closes off more of the spill ports as the throttle is increased? I'm not sure what the tensioning lever and flyweight are for.<br><br>While We are on the subject. Where does the AFC fit into the fuel chain? I'm trying to put together the relationship between the AFC and full power screw.<br><br>Any idea where one could get ahold of a tech manual for the VE pump?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Jay

 

Well...I tried to help. Lets see, where to start.<br><br>Unlike Delphi, Lucas or Stanadyne pumps. The rollers on the VE pump are not actuated by an internal cam ring with lobes on it, but instead the cam ring circular and attached to a round cam plate. As the cam ring rotates with the injection pump driveshaft and plunger, the rollers (which are fixed), cause the cam lobe to lift every 60* in a six cylinder engine. In other words, the rollers do not lift on the cam as in a conventional system, but it is the cam ring that is solidly attached to the rotating plunger that actually lifts as each lobe comes into contact with each positioned roller spaced apart in relation to the number of engine cylinders. With such a system then, the plunger stroke will remain constant regardless of engine rpm. At the end of each plunger stroke, a spring ensures a return of the cam ring to its former position. Therefore, the back and forth motion of the single pumping plunger is positive.<br><br>The sequence of events in a VE pump. The fill slot of the roatating plunger is aligned with the fill port, which is recieving fuel at transfer pump psi as high as 7 bar (100psi), one cylinder only. <br><br>The rotating plunger has reached the port closing position. The pluger rotates a control spool regulating collar. The position of the regulating collar is controlled by the driver though linkage connected to and through the governer spring and flyweights. Therfore, even though the roller may be causing the cam ring plunger to lift, the position of the regulating collar determines the amount of travel of the plunger or prestroke, so the actua effective stroke of the plunger is determined at all times by the collar position. <br><br>As the poiint of plunger lift (start of effective stroke), fuel delivery to the hydraulic head and injector line will begin in the engine firing order sequence.<br><br>The effective stroke is always less than the total plunger stroke. As the plunger moves through the regulating collar, it uncovers a spill port, opening of the high pressure circuit and allowing the remaining fuel to spill into the interior of the injection pump housing. This then is port opening or spill, which ends the effective stroke of the plunger<br><br>With the sudden decrease in fuel delivery psi, the spring within the injector nozzle rapidly seats the needle valve, stopping injection and preventing after-dribble, unburned fuel, therefore engine exhaust smoke. As the same time, the delivery valve for that nozzle located in the hydraulic head is snapped back on its seat by spring psi.<br><br><br>More to come ;D<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

 

One thing to always remember is that the force of the governor spring is always attempting to increase the fuel delivery rate to the engine, hile the centrifugal force of the governor flyweights is always attempting to decrease the fuel to the engine. Anytime that the centrifugal force of the rotating governor flyweights and the governor spring forces are equal, the governor is said to be in a state of balance and the engine will run at a fixed steady spead. <br><br>Engine acceleration:<br><br>When the throttle initially beyond the idle range, the weights will compress the idle spring and the weight force will now act upon the force of the intermediate spring for a short time. This spring allows a reasonably wide idle speed range, a large speed droop, and a soft or gradual transition from the low idle speed range (governor control) to the pooint where the driver has complete control over the engine speed. The intermediate spring will be completely compressed shortly after the engine is accelerated from idle, and the throttle pedal now acts directly through the linkage to the sliding sleeve. There is not enough weight force to act upon the high speed spring until the engine speed approaches the high end. Engine speed is now directly controlled by the driver.<br><br>High speed control:<br><br>When the engine speed and therefore governor weight force is great enough, the centrifugal force of the weights will oppose the high speed spring until a state of balance occurs. When the weights and spring come into play at the higher speed range, the maximum speed of the engine is limited by the fact that the weights as they fly out cause the sliding sleeve to transfer motion through lever and which will compress the spring and therefore move the control spool to its left to shorten the effective stroke of the pump plunger. In this way, the engine recieves less fuel and the masimum speed of the engine is therefore limited when the weights and spring are in a state of balance. <br><br>The aneroid boost head compensator control:<br><br>Basically, the boost compensator ensures that the amount of injected fuel is in direct proportion to the quantity of air within the engine cylinder to sustain correct combustion of the fuel and therefore increase the hp of the engine. With the engine running, pressurized air from the cold end of the turbo passes through the connecting tube from the engine air manifold to the boost compensator chamber. Inside this chamber is a diapraghm which is connected to a pushrod (eccentric cone) which is in turn to coupled to the pin. Movenment of the diapraghm is opposed by a spring, therefore for any movement to take place at the pin, the air psi on the the diaphraghm must be higher than spring tension. As the engine RPM and load increase and the air psi within the connecting tube becomes high enough to overcome the tension of the spring, the diaphragm and pushrod will be pushed down. This movement causes the compensator pin come in. Forcing the fuel contol rack toward an increased fuel position. The boost compenstor will react to the engine inlet air psi regardless of the action of the governor. When the turbo boost reaches its maximum, the quantity of additional fuel is injected will be equal to the stroke fo the aneroid boost compensator pin, in additon to the normal full load injection amount that is determined by the governor full load stop bolt.<br><br>Clear as mud? Good ;D<br><br> Monty

 

Monty, That was awesome! !!!<br><br>I'm going to print this, grab a big cup of coffee and read it about 500 times and see if anything sinks in. ;D <br><br>I'll be back<br><br>Jay

 

Monty-<br><br>Earlier you stated Piers said the pump would not handle over 3k. Is this due to the strength of the plunger return spring?<br><br>In the “Engine Acceleration” paragraph you use the term “Intermediate Spring” Which one is that on the picture in the link you posted? <br><br>In the picture it is hard to tell if the governor lever pivots or slides. I’m guessing pivots but the picture makes little sense in this area. It is hard to see how the full power screw works. I’m guessing the full power screw either increases the range of the “effective stroke” or ????<br><br>The 3k spring is then a stiffer spring to counter the flyweight and therefore increase the “effective stroke” of the control sleeve? Changing the spring has the same effect as adjusting the high idle screw but without increasing the control lever movement?<br><br>You say the “compensator pin” in the AFC moves the “fuel control rack” Is this the governor lever assembly or? So movement of the compensator pin changes the effective stroke?<br><br>How am I doing so far?<br><br>Jay<br>

 

As I recall a similar conversation with Piers on this topic, he felt that the work/trouble to do the spring kit idea was more than it was worth. He felt that using the high idle method was pretty much, just a effective, and a 5 minute job in comparison. I have done the latter method, and now pull right up to 3000 RPM no problem.

FWIW.... bob.

BTW, Monty,.. awesome post... can I grab that for the benefit of other 1st Genners elsewhere or is it to be left here only??? either way, fantastic info/post... you get a 5 RWHP bonus for that one bud....

bob.

 

[quote author=Bushy link=board=9;threadid=9951;start=0#95442 date=1043309687]<br>As I recall a similar conversation with Piers on this topic, he felt that the work/trouble to do the spring kit idea was more than it was worth. He felt that using the high idle method was pretty much, just a effective, and a 5 minute job in comparison. I have done the latter method, and now pull right up to 3000 RPM no problem.<br><br>FWIW.... bob.<br><br>BTW, Monty,.. awesome post... can I grab that for the benefit of other 1st Genners elsewhere or is it to be left here only??? either way, fantastic info/post... you get a 5 RWHP bonus for that one bud....<br><br>bob.<br>[/quote]<br><br>Sure Bob, BTW...I have quite a few different pics of the VE pumps workings. I will try and scan them off and put them here in my photo section very soon.

 

Not so fast Bob, I'm not done with him yet. ;D ;D ;D

 

Engine Acceleration revised:<br><br>When the engine is accelerated beyond the idle rpm, the centrifugal force of the roatating governor flyweights will force the sliding sleeve to the right and with the starting lever up against the tensioning lever, the idle spring will be compressed. Additional engine speed and weight force will now cause lever to pul against the larger governor spring. Movement of the throttle lever causes the engine speed control lever to move away from the idle speed adjusting screw and toward the full load screw. The travel of the speed control lever is determined by the driver and just how fast he or she wants to go ;D. When the driver stops on the throttle, the previous state of balance condition that existed at idle is upset in favor of the gov spring. The control spool is moved through the starting lever and the tensioning lever so that the effective stroke of the rotating pump plunger is lengthened by moving the control spool initially to its right. As the engine recieves more fuel and accelerates, the centrifugal force of the rotating flyweights will push the sliding sleeve to its right causing the starting lever and the tensioning lever to stretch the governor spring. When a state of balance condition exists once again between the rotating weights and the spring, the engine will run at a steady speed with the throttle in a fixed position. If the throttle is placed in full fuel, the speed control lever will butt up against the full load adjusting screw, which will limit the maximum speed of the engine. Weight force at this point is greater than the spring force, therefore, the sliding sleeve will cause the starting and tensioning lever to PIVOT around the support pin. The control spool will be moved to the left which will reduce effective stroke of the rotating pump plunger. As a result, the engine will recieve less fuel, therby automatically limiting the maximum speed of the engine. When the centrifugal force of the rotating governor flyweights are exual to the governor spring force the engine will run at a fixed RPM at max speed. If the engine was started and accelerated to its max rpm with the vehicle in a stationary position, the action of the governor weights would limit the maximum amount of fuel that the engine could recieve by moving the contol spool to decrease the pump plungers effective stroke. When the engine is running under such a condition (max no load speed) it is no recieving full fuel.<br><br>The reaction of the governor when a load is applied to the engine will always be the same at any speed setting.<br>Description:<br>Load applied at a given speed setting of the throttle, and engine slows down such as when going up a hill.<br><br>Upsets state of balance between weights and governor spring when above idle speed, if at idle, spring in favor of the spring force.<br><br>Spring pressure is greater and therfore the starting and tension lever move the the control spring to its right to lengthen the effective stroke of the rotating pump plunger and supply the engine with more fuel to develop additional HP.<br><br>If the load on the engine continues to increase, the engine will recieve more fuel to try to offset the load, but is will run at a slower RPM.<br><br>As long as the engine can produce enough additional hp, the governor will once again reach a state of balance between the weights and the spring, but at a slower speed than before the load was applied.<br><br>When the load was applied, the spring expanded (lengthened) to increase the fuel to the engine and ins so doing lost some of its compression; therefore the weights do not have to increase their speed/force to what existed before to establish a new state of balance. The engine will produce more hp with more fuel but will be running at a slower RPM.<br><br>Regardless of the governors reaction to increase fuel to the engine, if the load requirements exceed the power capability of the engine, the rpm will continue to drop. In our trucks, the only way that the speed can now be increased is for the driver to select a lower gear by downshifting.<br><br>If the engine was running at an idle rpm and an the air conditioner pump was turned on, the engine would tend to slow down (load increase). the governor through the spring force/less weight force would increase the fuel to the engine to prevent from stalling.<br><br>Engine Decrease:<br><br>Engine speed decreases, weights fly out with more forced and they will cause the sliding sleeve to move the starting and tensioning levers against the force of the spring.<br><br>The control spool will move to its left to decrease (shorten) the effective stroke of the pump plunger and reducde fuel to the engine until a new corrected state of balance condition exists.<br><br>With load on the engine, it requires less hp and less fuel and as the engine slows down, so do the weights until the state ob balance is reestablishied.<br><br>If a vehicle goes down a hill, the load is reduced. If the driver does not check the speed of the truck, it is possible for the driving wheels to run faster than the engine. IF the drive wheels starte to rotate the engine, the governor weights will also gain speed and by doing this, they will reduce the effective stroke of the pump plunger and the engines fuel will automatically be reduced.

 

Monty, You have way too much time on your hands. ;D

 

Mark, thats my problem, I have NO time, and when I get time I dont know what to do with it