Busboy

I was speaking with a friend yesterday, he's an avid car/truck guy, he was telling me that the 2013 Ram pickup had been spotted in camouflage, one thing that stood out was the "larger" fuel fill door, meaning they must be thinking about it. I did a little digging and found this link that shows the urea tank. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/07...y-pickups.html

06RAM2500

No like, Ram is going with urea for either the 2012.5 or 2013 model year.

Shane.K

Nothing wrong with using urea, I think its better than the current setup.

T210DRVR

DEF and Urea refer to the same thing. I believe that by complying with 2010 emissions early in 2007 Dodge got to delay the implementation of the Urea system. I think 2013 is the year they have to convert to the Urea system. Arguably, the Urea system is a better technology and allows for improved fuel economy though this is at the expense of a utilizing an expensive consumable like Urea. As near as I've heard the Urea systems used on 2010 GM and Ford trucks has worked pretty well.

I think getting rid of the EGR and DPF altogether is a better solution though with it's drawback of potentially voiding your engine warrantee.

Bmcush

Does this mean a Urea system on top of the existing emissions crap?

New2Diesel

All that means to me is another acronym that can fit under the title "Black Tech".

T210DRVR

From Cummins, "SCR is a technology that uses a urea based diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) and a catalytic converter to significantly reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions. SCR is the leading technology being used to meet 2010 emission regulations."

In other words it replaces the cooled EGR as a means of reducing NOx. The DPF remains as a way to reduce particulate emissions.

T210DRVR

Again, from Cummins with respect to their 2010 OTR heavy duty engines for Class 8 trucks, "Cummins 2010 engines will deliver what customers need in these challenging economic times. Cummins 2010 heavy duty engines utilizing SCR will provide substantial fuel economy improvement, up to 5%. SCR catalyst technology allows much greater NOx conversion efficiency, thereby allowing the engine to be fully optimized, which contributes to this fuel economy improvement. Another benefit to the improved fuel consumption is less frequent Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) cleanout, thereby further reducing costs"

Cooled EGR reduces NOx emissions by reducing combustion temperatures by introducing cooled exhaust gases to the combustion process. This is an inefficient way to reduce NOx and explains in part why the 6.7 engines get poor fuel economy.

Bmcush

Hummmm... That sounds like a very good thing. Maybe with the absense of the EGR system sooting of the intake track and turbo will be a thing of the past

boblamp

I plan on getting my Cummins before they are forced to use urea. First of all, I don't want the added expense of the urea. Second, it is a fuel economy killer. The locals running Duracrap and PowerStrokes whine constantly about the horrible fuel economy. My mechanic and his son in law are both running Duramax and they are reporting 8-12 mpg. A couple of the locals did DEF/Urea deletes on their new trucks and they are reporting 3-5 mpg improvement. Those guys rack up a lot of miles, so they don't care about voiding the warranty.
You can keep the def/urea, I don't want any part of it

DirtEater

I see that this is not your first post on DTR. So you know the rules. Insult a new member (or any member for that matter) again and it will be your last post on DTR.


Blake

T210DRVR

Why don't you tell us what you really think?

But seriously, you are right. The DEF system is better in almost all respects except for the cost of the fluid. There is no question that the DEF system yields better fuel economy.

boblamp

Well DirtEater, maybe out in Oklahoma you have table flat roads, but this is Pennsylvania and we have hills. Lots of hills. These trucks are running the hills of SouthWestern PA and the Northern panhandle of West Virginia. If these guys were BRAGGING about the GREAT fuel economy, I would have said so. But they aren't bragging, they are whining.
All this smog crap is dragging down the fuel economy. First gen Cummins 2 valve 5.9l used to get 18-20 mpg empty or loaded, as did the 7.3 PowerStroke. That was good milage compared to the gas engines of the time getting 14 mpg empty and less than 8 mpg pulling 95000 lbs of trailer and mid size farm tractor. (And before you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about, those numbers are hand calculated from MY Ford with 5.4, 3.73 gears and 4 wheel drive.)

Purplezr2

If you can get 18-20 load you must be pulling a radio flyer. Also def will increase economy. Just look at all the places that have implement DEF and seen a rise in fuel economy. I know that in the tractor market is has been better.

Busboy

While I have MY non DEF truck others may not be as lucky. I just read that the lowest freeze point of DEF is -11degC /12deg F and has a shelf life from 6 months to 2 years depending on storage temp. Here is an interesting Q and A from Cummins. Worth the read I though. http://www.fleetguard.com/pdfs/produ...es/MB10033.pdf