No-start situation
02-13-2017, 12:16 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
No-start situation
I could really use some sound advice from someone not looking to make a buck off of my inexperience. Here's our timeline:
To start, she's a '93 intercooled stock 12 valve. Ok. A couple of months ago I took a day trip across the state to pick up parts. It was super cold. I stopped for fuel about 10 miles from home on the way back. She wouldn't start when I went to leave. I thought I had gelled fuel since I'd forgotten the additive with the last tank. Purged the heck out of the fuel filter, fiddled with fss wires, and she eventually started.
Replaced her fss the next week since I'd had to start manually shutting her down a few weeks prior. Sometimes she'd shut down, sometimes she wouldn't after that.
Two weeks ago, she refused to start again. I fiddled with the fss wires again and got her going eventually. I boogied on home with plans to buy a better fss.
A week ago, another no start. No amount of tinkering in the parking lot was getting this thing home. I got her running, but it was weak and as soon as I started letting the clutch out with a little throttle, she shut down. Twice. So I had her towed home.
I thought maybe a had a failing lift pump since mine was old and crusty and the stock unit she was born with. I replaced it with a 15psi piston style unit from THD. After purging the air from that, she fired right up. Ran and revved, though it didn't sound right. Too quiet. Got out to look at the engine and rev it from the engine bay and she quit. Would not restart.
Played with her again last night. Here's where the real drama starts. Tried purging her from the port by the lift pump again. No dice. Decided to pull the fss to yank the plunger, just in case (I could hear it clicking like it was working, but I wanted to eliminate all doubt.) It was in there pretty good though, and my husband used an air chisel to gently tat-tat-tat it loose. He pulls it out and there's metal shavings in there. He swears up and down that he created those shavings while tapping with the chisel and they fell in because he failed to blow the area clean before pulling the fss. It makes sense to me. Either way, we thoroughly clean everything and blow out the fss hole with air before reinstalling a plunger-less fss. Still no start, but she sounds a wee bit stronger. Well let's just start cracking open injectors! So we do that. Much bubbling and spraying happens. After the second one, she starts. Again, it's quiet and kind of weak but she's going. So we keep going down the line and purging those lines. She sounds a little better with each one. Still not 100% but it's something. After we finished, I shut her down to put tools away before a test run. My gut says this isn't going to work. Sure enough, when I go to start her up ten minutes later, we're back to square one. No start. I gave up for the night.
I asked about this in another forum, and I've got a guy *insisting* my injection pump is toast from those shavings (that I'm pretty certain came from my husband's carelessness and should have made it no further than the fss hole since we blew them out right away). Dude says I need to replace it or rebuild it and how convenient... he rebuilds them. Just send it on over. Ehhhh.
A) So where else could these shavings have come from if not unclean practices?
B) Am I really looking at a new/rebuilt VE pump?
C) Where/what else should I be looking for before I start selling organs on the black market to pay for this new pump?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm trying. I just want my truck back. I miss her.
To start, she's a '93 intercooled stock 12 valve. Ok. A couple of months ago I took a day trip across the state to pick up parts. It was super cold. I stopped for fuel about 10 miles from home on the way back. She wouldn't start when I went to leave. I thought I had gelled fuel since I'd forgotten the additive with the last tank. Purged the heck out of the fuel filter, fiddled with fss wires, and she eventually started.
Replaced her fss the next week since I'd had to start manually shutting her down a few weeks prior. Sometimes she'd shut down, sometimes she wouldn't after that.
Two weeks ago, she refused to start again. I fiddled with the fss wires again and got her going eventually. I boogied on home with plans to buy a better fss.
A week ago, another no start. No amount of tinkering in the parking lot was getting this thing home. I got her running, but it was weak and as soon as I started letting the clutch out with a little throttle, she shut down. Twice. So I had her towed home.
I thought maybe a had a failing lift pump since mine was old and crusty and the stock unit she was born with. I replaced it with a 15psi piston style unit from THD. After purging the air from that, she fired right up. Ran and revved, though it didn't sound right. Too quiet. Got out to look at the engine and rev it from the engine bay and she quit. Would not restart.
Played with her again last night. Here's where the real drama starts. Tried purging her from the port by the lift pump again. No dice. Decided to pull the fss to yank the plunger, just in case (I could hear it clicking like it was working, but I wanted to eliminate all doubt.) It was in there pretty good though, and my husband used an air chisel to gently tat-tat-tat it loose. He pulls it out and there's metal shavings in there. He swears up and down that he created those shavings while tapping with the chisel and they fell in because he failed to blow the area clean before pulling the fss. It makes sense to me. Either way, we thoroughly clean everything and blow out the fss hole with air before reinstalling a plunger-less fss. Still no start, but she sounds a wee bit stronger. Well let's just start cracking open injectors! So we do that. Much bubbling and spraying happens. After the second one, she starts. Again, it's quiet and kind of weak but she's going. So we keep going down the line and purging those lines. She sounds a little better with each one. Still not 100% but it's something. After we finished, I shut her down to put tools away before a test run. My gut says this isn't going to work. Sure enough, when I go to start her up ten minutes later, we're back to square one. No start. I gave up for the night.
I asked about this in another forum, and I've got a guy *insisting* my injection pump is toast from those shavings (that I'm pretty certain came from my husband's carelessness and should have made it no further than the fss hole since we blew them out right away). Dude says I need to replace it or rebuild it and how convenient... he rebuilds them. Just send it on over. Ehhhh.
A) So where else could these shavings have come from if not unclean practices?
B) Am I really looking at a new/rebuilt VE pump?
C) Where/what else should I be looking for before I start selling organs on the black market to pay for this new pump?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm trying. I just want my truck back. I miss her.
02-13-2017, 12:30 PM
#2
Banned
Pretty hard to get metal shavings in the FSS unless it's from the FSS itself. You've got the filter before it.
Could be sucking air from a line pre lift pump. Between pump and the tank.
Bad fuel? Clogged fuel filter?
Please tell me it's Eric from the hungry diesel that's trying only to sell you product!?!
Could be sucking air from a line pre lift pump. Between pump and the tank.
Bad fuel? Clogged fuel filter?
Please tell me it's Eric from the hungry diesel that's trying only to sell you product!?!
02-13-2017, 12:34 PM
#3
Registered User
Bypass the filter and feed the VE directly from a bucket of clean diesel and see if it idles for an hour.
If it does, reconnect everything & crack the return banjo bolt open, and put 5psi air into the fuel tank through the filler.
If it does, reconnect everything & crack the return banjo bolt open, and put 5psi air into the fuel tank through the filler.
02-13-2017, 12:52 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Pretty hard to get metal shavings in the FSS unless it's from the FSS itself. You've got the filter before it.
Could be sucking air from a line pre lift pump. Between pump and the tank.
Bad fuel? Clogged fuel filter?
Please tell me it's Eric from the hungry diesel that's trying only to sell you product!?!
Could be sucking air from a line pre lift pump. Between pump and the tank.
Bad fuel? Clogged fuel filter?
Please tell me it's Eric from the hungry diesel that's trying only to sell you product!?!
02-13-2017, 12:56 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Good idea... thank you. It'll be a couple of days before I'm home long enough to try this, but I'll give it a go asap. What if it doesn't work? Is it the pump then?
02-13-2017, 05:27 PM
#6
Registered User
There is a filter on the bottom of the fuel draw line, and it can get gummed up with debris, algae, etc.
02-13-2017, 06:55 PM
#7
Registered User
Yes.
Or a clogged fuel heater plate/dry plate gasket.
Have you checked - thoroughly - for fuel
leaks? Easier to diagnose than air ingress.
Crawl under the truck and look for stains on the underside of the head/block.
WIF sensor contraption ? Easy to miss leaks unless you look for a wet spot on frame rail.
Then check tank connections/lines.
The issue sounds like fuel leakage/air ingress.
Or a clogged fuel heater plate/dry plate gasket.
Have you checked - thoroughly - for fuel
leaks? Easier to diagnose than air ingress.
Crawl under the truck and look for stains on the underside of the head/block.
WIF sensor contraption ? Easy to miss leaks unless you look for a wet spot on frame rail.
Then check tank connections/lines.
The issue sounds like fuel leakage/air ingress.
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02-14-2017, 09:22 AM
#8
Banned
Yes.
Or a clogged fuel heater plate/dry plate gasket.
Have you checked - thoroughly - for fuel
leaks? Easier to diagnose than air ingress.
Crawl under the truck and look for stains on the underside of the head/block.
WIF sensor contraption ? Easy to miss leaks unless you look for a wet spot on frame rail.
Then check tank connections/lines.
The issue sounds like fuel leakage/air ingress.
Or a clogged fuel heater plate/dry plate gasket.
Have you checked - thoroughly - for fuel
leaks? Easier to diagnose than air ingress.
Crawl under the truck and look for stains on the underside of the head/block.
WIF sensor contraption ? Easy to miss leaks unless you look for a wet spot on frame rail.
Then check tank connections/lines.
The issue sounds like fuel leakage/air ingress.
Replace fuel filter, prime system, run truck, if still problems, remove the line from the lift pump and running it from a jug of diesel.
02-18-2017, 07:23 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
I just wanted to follow up with everyone that had helpful advice for me. I finally got to spend some time with her today, and am cautiously optimistic that we're in business again.
I started by putting pressure to the fuel tank. I couldn't find any leaks anywhere. So before trying to bypass the lift pump and filter and all that and run her from a bucket of fuel, I yanked the fuel filter to make sure it even had fuel in it. It was only half full, even after cranking her and priming the pump. It was also nearly impossible to get it off the truck, and was mangled in the process. (Something was wrong. I know I'm not strong enough to permanently attach a filter like that...) Looking at the wif sensor on there, I decided it was probably old enough and it bad enough shape that it was time to pull out the spare and see what happened. I installed the new filter and wif sensor and after cracking injectors again, she ran. She ran like butter. I moved her around the yard and she did it flawlessly, so I shut her down for about 15 minutes. I figured that would be the real test... well she started again! So I spent some time rigging in a pull-cable shut off (since I gutted the fss the last time I worked on her) and tried firing her up again. Success!! So I brought her into town for a fill up, and then took a detour home to get her up to highway speeds. She handled it like a champ. I did notice that the fuel filter and wif sensor are lightly wet again though, so I'm thinking my fuel heater is finally leaking. I'm going to order the stuff tonight to do the delete, and hopefully that will close this particular case for good.
Thank you so much to everyone that had advice! It all came together and got my Pretty Penny back on the road without having to do anything stupidly expensive!
I started by putting pressure to the fuel tank. I couldn't find any leaks anywhere. So before trying to bypass the lift pump and filter and all that and run her from a bucket of fuel, I yanked the fuel filter to make sure it even had fuel in it. It was only half full, even after cranking her and priming the pump. It was also nearly impossible to get it off the truck, and was mangled in the process. (Something was wrong. I know I'm not strong enough to permanently attach a filter like that...) Looking at the wif sensor on there, I decided it was probably old enough and it bad enough shape that it was time to pull out the spare and see what happened. I installed the new filter and wif sensor and after cracking injectors again, she ran. She ran like butter. I moved her around the yard and she did it flawlessly, so I shut her down for about 15 minutes. I figured that would be the real test... well she started again! So I spent some time rigging in a pull-cable shut off (since I gutted the fss the last time I worked on her) and tried firing her up again. Success!! So I brought her into town for a fill up, and then took a detour home to get her up to highway speeds. She handled it like a champ. I did notice that the fuel filter and wif sensor are lightly wet again though, so I'm thinking my fuel heater is finally leaking. I'm going to order the stuff tonight to do the delete, and hopefully that will close this particular case for good.
Thank you so much to everyone that had advice! It all came together and got my Pretty Penny back on the road without having to do anything stupidly expensive!
02-18-2017, 08:47 PM
#11
Registered User
Good stuff!
The square cut o-ring (part # 3913695) that seals the fuel heater plate to the cylinder head gets dry & usually leaks.
I change the o-ring with every fuel filter change, and use a M16x1.5 die to clean up the filter mounting stud while doing that.
Or if you decide to eliminate the heater plate, use the delete nipple part # 3925954, and the fuel filter that does away with the WIF sensor is FS1221.
The square cut o-ring (part # 3913695) that seals the fuel heater plate to the cylinder head gets dry & usually leaks.
I change the o-ring with every fuel filter change, and use a M16x1.5 die to clean up the filter mounting stud while doing that.
Or if you decide to eliminate the heater plate, use the delete nipple part # 3925954, and the fuel filter that does away with the WIF sensor is FS1221.
02-18-2017, 11:23 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Just out of curiosity, will my wif warning light be coming on since it won't be getting a signal anymore? (I think I'm going to go with the filters that eliminate the sensor. I'm over it. 
)
)
02-19-2017, 05:44 AM
#13
Registered User
The light will not come on if you remove the sensor.
It is basically a two wire unit. If there is water at the bottom of the filter and it gets high enough. It then allows the two wires to "contact" each other using the water and the light comes on.
If there is no sensor then there is no contact, so there will be no light that comes on.
It is basically a two wire unit. If there is water at the bottom of the filter and it gets high enough. It then allows the two wires to "contact" each other using the water and the light comes on.
If there is no sensor then there is no contact, so there will be no light that comes on.
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