Jim Lane

I usually use Shellzone Low Silicate antifreeze in my truck like this,

SHELLZONE ANTIFREEZE/COOLANT - Buy Online Now! SHELLZONE ANTIFREE ...

But for some reason I am having a hard time finding a store that carries it but I found Zerex from Valvoline at Napa, does it look like they are the same?

Valvoline.com > Products > Zerex > Antifreeze Zerex > Zerex? Original Green Antifreeze / Coolant

I think the old Zerex with stop leak name in haunting me.

The counter person at Napa also told me I could use any color antifreeze in my truck that I wanted.


Thanks Jim

thrashingcows

I personally just use the Napa, good old fashion green Glycol non mixed stuff. Then mix a 50/50 off that and filler 'er up. I have not had any issues.

j_martin

Looks good to me, Jim.

BTW, where can I get a layman's explanation of the different ASTM specs?

What's the difference between D-4340 and D-4985?

What spec would be needed to protect an aluminum radiator?

jerseybud

I have been using the Zerex g-05 stuff but next change will be John Deere Coolgard. I know the Cummins doesn't have anywhere near the cavitation issues the powerstroke guys have, but why take the risk?
The testing and stats on the coolgard stuff is eye opening.

extreme steel

i have been using caterpillar coolant, use it in my 2 dodge diesels and my skid-steer also in commercial dive boat.

Dieselbuilder

Did you now all the green Glycol is the same I was down in Vancouver Washington at a warehouse at the dock where they package this I seen a dozen or more company labels being filled from the same tank the only one they did not fill was prestolite they where not sure where that brand was filled?

anoldbiker

There are more products made by a small amount if companies that will change the specs slightly and package for any company out there. Take fuel additives like fuel injector cleaner. Or oils. I worked for a refinery that packaged oil for another oil company and used their labels. Their competitor didn't have resources in that area and contracted with us. We did the same in areas that we did not have resources available. So hearing what is said about antifreeze is not surprising.

What a person needs to make sure is, in the case of antifreeze, it meets the specs required for their vehicle and look for the best price and availability when needed.

Montana2x2

X2 Cat extended life.

Jim Lane

Here is all the information about coolant requirements that you need to know directly from Cummins.

This is kind of a long Service Bulletin but very informative and seems like only a few of us have been doing it correctly, this also explains in Section 7 why not to use a high concentration of antifreeze and the damage that will result.

http://www.cummins.dk/fileadmin/doku...nt_3666132.pdf

Also the question about Distilled or DI Water,

Section 9 - Water Quality Requirements
Cooling systems perform best with distilled or deionized water. If distilled or deionized water is not available, the quality of the water used must meet all the requirements listed below. Excessive levels of calcium and magnesium contribute to scaling problems, and excessive levels of chloride and sulfate cause cooling system corrosion. If water quality is unknown, it can be tested with the Fleetguard® Monitor C™ program or Water-Chek™ test strip. Water test results can also be obtained from local water utility departments. Test data must show the following elements, and the levels must not exceed the published limits for use in cooling systems.

Jim

j_martin

Thanks for the document, Jim.

It's interesting that about halfway through the file I found that the B series engines do not need all these requirements. It drops all the way back to ASTM D-3306 if you wish.

I believe it'd be worth the effort to meet the specs if your system is likely to go 150,000 miles without major maintenance. Most of us will have other issues first losing an expensive coolant charge with little benefits in my opinion.

I'm still looking for a definition of the various ASTM antifreeze specs referred to in various places.

jimbo486

I've always used demineralized water in my cooling system. Turns out, "demineralized" is just another term for dionized. I was about to ask for a guru's opinion regarding the use of demin. water in a Cummins until I quickly researched demin. water.

Often used to feed boilers, it keeps the calcium, magnesium and any other metallic minerals and impurities to a minimum. Thus, less corrosion and scale build up within the system and its components. Sounds good enough to put in my cooling system!

When I serviced and flushed my cooling system a few weeks ago, I bought some Heavy Duty, full strength (concentrate, fully formulated?) antifreeze. It's a pink color yet still an ethylene glycol formula. Noted that it came precharged with SCA (Supplement Coolant Additive) and that it was for heavy duty engines. I believe this was the bottle. I don't recall it being Napa brand but, this does look familiar.



How about thoughts regarding the premixed, coolant/antifreeze (50/50) solutions? How can we be sure of the quality of the water that is being used in the solution? I'd like to assume something similar to or of higher quality/purity than DI water.

bannerd

The two most important things in a cooling system are water and glycol. Water retains heat and glycol is a transfer. Glycol will transfer heat into metal (radiator) as well as water. That is the basic principal. Water can transfer too, but water likes to retain it all to itself.

The two things you need to look for are ethylene glycol and propylene glycols. Ethylene glycol transfers heat much much faster than propylene. You'll also notice the viscosity of ethylene is lighter which reduces wear on the water pump in our trucks. Both have an anti-corrosion in them.. even if the water you supply has high iron content you won't see much affect. You want to stay away from chlorine and any glycol. Which is why they say don't use hose/tap water, distilled only.

Propylene came about because it's less toxic, less efficient... something about the EPA and human consumption

jimbo486

EPA officials musta come to that conclusion after the fact .

j_martin

I don't know where you get your information, but I've been deep into the mathematics of run around heat recovery, heat transfer, coil design, etc. Said math makes computer programming look like stacking blocks.

Here's some real facts.
1. Water has the highest specific heat of the three. ethylene glycol has the next highest, with propylene glycol bringing up the rear.
The specific heat is the amount of heat a given weight of the material will hold.

2. The main determinants of heat transfer from a liquid to metal are turbulence, viscosity, and adhesion, with adhesion being the least important factor. The more viscous a liquid, the less turbulence can be generated, and the more the flow will laminate, effectively insulating the metal (pipe) from the hot fluid in the middle of the stream with a slow moving layer of the same liquid.

3. The main determinants in total heat transfer are the above, plus the ability to get the fluid around the circuit fast. The tradeoff in most designs is how much you want to spend for power to pump it. Again, viscosity is a big factor.

Propylene glycol has both a lower specific heat and a higher viscosity than ethylene glycol, but not much at normal operating temperatures. In extreme cold, the effect is enough to cripple a system.

Ethylene glycol ingested in fairly small amounts, metabolizes into many detrimental compounds, including calcium oxalate, which forms needle like crystals in the kidneys and destroys them. Propylene glycol is actually digestible, and forms no such metabolites. For that reason, if it is practical, and sometimes even when it's impractical, propylene glycol is used in heat transfer systems. It's what's in the district hot water heating system on my farm. There are draw backs. The main one is that the heat transfer coils had to be made a bit bigger, and it's limited to about 30% by volume, (to keep viscosity down) so if circulation fails in extreme weather, it could freeze up.

MARF75

JM, you took the words right out of my mouth