Updated Info on VP-44 - Page 3 - Dodge Diesel

John_P · 03-20-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bent valves

The VP44 electronics failure problem is partly due to the way component parts were soldered to the circuit boards. The use of a tin/lead solder was phased out and replaced with a tin/copper/gold alloy. This was done to eliminate the pollution problems with lead.

Today almost all electronic circuit boards use surface mount technology instead of the older through hole technology. Component parts are soldered directly to the copper wiring traces in place of having the component leads stuffed into a drilled hole and soldered on the underside of the board. The reliability of a surface mount connection was not much worse than through hole when using a solder made with tin/lead but is much less reliable with the lead removed. Problems showed up with cracks in the soldered connections causing intermittent or failed connections.

The FedX computer fix was a change in the solder technology to try and recover the reliability of the older tin/lead solder. Adding back lead would violate EPA and Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment ( WEEE ) and the Restriction on Hazardous Substances (RoHS) Directives in Europe.

Today, even with the FedX computer board reliability is questionable. Both NASA and the DoD have been trying to come up with a fix by testing an array of solders by using temperature cycling and vibration. The old tin/lead still wins. This link shows some of the testing being performed.
http://www.jgpp.com/projects/lead_fr...soldering.html
To put a number of about 2000 heat cycles on the life of a VP44 does not make a lot of sense unless you know what temperature extremes are and which computer board is used and how well the soldered connections were made. It is like predicting that a tire will last for 100,000 revolutions without knowing its load or inflation pressure.

Just my $0.02

----------------------
Great post Dave! Thanks for your input on that.

--------
John_P

thumper549 · 03-20-2009, 12:28 PM

SOooo seems we could take our board apart ant check for continuity and re solder ...

gandalf1g · 03-20-2009, 04:10 PM

Have you ever wondered why VW doesnt suffer from the same problems with their bosch VP pumps. They probably have more heat cycles then the Dodge truck seeing as how they are a passenger car.

thumper549 · 03-20-2009, 08:45 PM

Now thats a good PT !!

olddodgetrucks · 03-20-2009, 09:09 PM

it took aftermarket makers 10-12 yrs to solve gm 6.5 pump drivers [electonic{ to solve there problem,the 6.5 was like the vp44 and could fail anytime without warning.maybe someone will fo the same for vp44,s

EBunger · 03-20-2009, 09:34 PM

We can only hope!

smokinram99 · 03-22-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalf1g

Have you ever wondered why VW doesnt suffer from the same problems with their bosch VP pumps. They probably have more heat cycles then the Dodge truck seeing as how they are a passenger car.

ya, have the other VP44 application those problems?? also BMW cars have VPs...same problems? or its only related to our trucks...?!

rob

RAM2940 · 03-22-2009, 06:28 PM

I know John Deere used the VP-44 on some of there tractors, not sure of the failure rate though.

84mphcdt · 03-23-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wantedwolf

I was told yesterday by a Midwest rep that any pumps rebuilt by a authorized bosch rebuilder will have the steel timing sleeve and a 100% new computer installed among a few other things.

Would it be practical to do a pre-emptive replacement of the timing sleeve & the computer on a vp44 that ISN'T acting up? How much would it cost in parts & labor?

Diesel-Dan · 03-23-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAM2940

I know John Deere used the VP-44 on some of there tractors, not sure of the failure rate though.

Used to work for JD.....not very many if any from what i was told. Could be a few things that play into that....tractors are not subject to throttle cycles like cars and trucks. More or less WOT or not. AND the pumps are exposed more (Well, i would say better engine cooling that would purge more under hood heat due to the nature of the beast).

Got a lot of ISB's in school buses and such that see the exact same issue....even heard of a internal memo @ Cintas's Repair facility concerning lift/injection pump failures. SO not just us Dodge boys (that are gluten's for punishment) that are having issues....wish i could say our pumps were an end all to VP issues (I have had 2 on my truck going on 3...1st fuel pressure related back in 04, the rest comp board (2nd) and IAT sensor (Current and 3rd))...but lack of fuel pressure is just one of the many ways for these things to die.....

J Lent · 03-23-2009, 09:33 PM

I honestly believe that fuel pressure has alot to do with it. Most guys will say no more than 15, no less than 10. I've been running 20+ for 60,000 miles & my vp is still going strong [knock on wood].

RowJ · 03-24-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Lent

I honestly believe that fuel pressure has alot to do with it. Most guys will say no more than 15, no less than 10. I've been running 20+ for 60,000 miles & my vp is still going strong [knock on wood].

Industrial Injection says that Bosch believes over 20 will damage the diaphram in the pump. But with the 'check ball' opening at 15 psi and the return line from your AD, or my FASS, I can't see a real problem. My FASS has a 19 psi spring in it, just in case.

RJ

billmac · 03-24-2009, 08:21 PM

I just replaced the VP44 on my truck two weeks ago. The truck had 66,000 miles on it and I had used a fuel additive from day one; either Amsoil Diesel Concentrate or Stanadyne. Apparently the electronics were ok, it was the housing that was worn out. Anyway, I bought my reman pump from M&D Distributors in Dallas and put it in myself. M&D is an authorized Bosch service facility and their pumps come with the following new components as well as all the Bosch updates: Pump Housing; PSG (the electronic control for the pump itself);Timing Piston; Head and Rotor; and Internal Supply Pump. In addition all bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. are replaced. Their remanufacturing facility is in Houston, TX. Their pump has a one year, unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much standard. There are two issues that will nullify the warranty, (1) no gas and (2) no water. I was told these were Bosch issues as well so that's probably industry standard.
Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but with the fuel system mods that I’ve made to the truck, fuel flow restrictions shouldn’t be an issue. I guess it will boil down to the quality of the remanufactured VP44.

EBunger · 03-24-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billmac

I just replaced the VP44 on my truck two weeks ago. The truck had 66,000 miles on it and I had used a fuel additive from day one; either Amsoil Diesel Concentrate or Stanadyne. Apparently the electronics were ok, it was the housing that was worn out. Anyway, I bought my reman pump from M&D Distributors in Dallas and put it in myself. M&D is an authorized Bosch service facility and their pumps come with the following new components as well as all the Bosch updates: Pump Housing; PSG (the electronic control for the pump itself);Timing Piston; Head and Rotor; and Internal Supply Pump. In addition all bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. are replaced. Their remanufacturing facility is in Houston, TX. Their pump has a one year, unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much standard. There are two issues that will nullify the warranty, (1) no gas and (2) no water. I was told these were Bosch issues as well so that's probably industry standard.
Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but I have 3/8ths id fuel hose from the VP44 to the fuel tank. I also have a 3/8ths id Draw Straw. During that install, I removed both screens in the fuel tank module and installed an in-line fuel strainer before the LP. Hopefully there are no more restrictions to fuel flow; hence a longer lasting VP44, hopefully.

Huh another 02 not making it to 70,000. Mine went out at 62,000. Trust me it wasnt anything you were doing wrong it the infamous 02 bosch brass experiment

John_P · 03-27-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBunger

Huh another 02 not making it to 70,000. Mine went out at 62,000. Trust me it wasnt anything you were doing wrong it the infamous 02 bosch brass experiment

----------------------------------------------------
EB....you did good with your VP going to 62,000 miles. On my now sold 2002, my first one went out at 22,000 miles!

Like alot of the other Members, I also had an aftermarket fuel system, bigger lines etc.

03-20-2009, 12:28 PM	#32
thumper549 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 391 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	SOooo seems we could take our board apart ant check for continuity and re solder ... __________________ 1998.5 4 wd 1 ton dually. Ceramic topped , molidium skirted pistons, Eng. balanced to "0" grams No plastic oil .cooling jets here !! a big bad S.bend clutch to match the Mercedes 6 speed... UMPH! gauges, 275 inj. Bigger steer box, track bar and on and on and on.... Air bags on the rear and a fisher snow plow on the front. I do not know nothing and can prove it.! Will Plow for Beer ! Juneau AK.

03-22-2009, 06:28 PM	#38
RAM2940 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: va beach, va Posts: 342 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I know John Deere used the VP-44 on some of there tractors, not sure of the failure rate though. __________________ 01 2500 QC, 4x4, SB, 3.54, 47RE

03-23-2009, 09:33 PM	#41
J Lent Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Millsboro, PA. Posts: 3,214 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I honestly believe that fuel pressure has alot to do with it. Most guys will say no more than 15, no less than 10. I've been running 20+ for 60,000 miles & my vp is still going strong [knock on wood]. __________________ 99 QC 611hp/1141lbft with Cracked HTT manifold Big Thanks To: Peter @ Southbend Clutch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmQhCXQbedg

03-24-2009, 08:21 PM	#43
billmac Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North Central Texas Posts: 178 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I just replaced the VP44 on my truck two weeks ago. The truck had 66,000 miles on it and I had used a fuel additive from day one; either Amsoil Diesel Concentrate or Stanadyne. Apparently the electronics were ok, it was the housing that was worn out. Anyway, I bought my reman pump from M&D Distributors in Dallas and put it in myself. M&D is an authorized Bosch service facility and their pumps come with the following new components as well as all the Bosch updates: Pump Housing; PSG (the electronic control for the pump itself);Timing Piston; Head and Rotor; and Internal Supply Pump. In addition all bearings, seals, gaskets, etc. are replaced. Their remanufacturing facility is in Houston, TX. Their pump has a one year, unlimited mileage warranty which is pretty much standard. There are two issues that will nullify the warranty, (1) no gas and (2) no water. I was told these were Bosch issues as well so that's probably industry standard. Anyway, I hope this pump will last much longer, mileage wise at least. It did hang on for 7.5 years though. I'm still running a Carter LP on the frame rail but with the fuel system mods that I’ve made to the truck, fuel flow restrictions shouldn’t be an issue. I guess it will boil down to the quality of the remanufactured VP44. __________________ 2002 2500HD QC Laramie SLT SB; 2WD; Auto; 3:54 AS; Camper/Tow Pkgs; 4" Exhaust; Optima Redtops; Bilstein shocks; DSS; Isspro EV 30psi mechanical FP gauge; Vulcan 3/8ths LP relo kit from tank to VP44; Centramatics Wheel Balancers. Mag-Hytec diff cover & tranny pan; Vulcan 3/8ths DS; I Replaced VP44 March 10, 2009 @66,000 miles.

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03-20-2009, 04:10 PM	#33
gandalf1g Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 40 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Have you ever wondered why VW doesnt suffer from the same problems with their bosch VP pumps. They probably have more heat cycles then the Dodge truck seeing as how they are a passenger car.

03-20-2009, 08:45 PM	#34
thumper549 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 391 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Now thats a good PT !!

03-20-2009, 09:09 PM	#35
olddodgetrucks Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 392 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	it took aftermarket makers 10-12 yrs to solve gm 6.5 pump drivers [electonic{ to solve there problem,the 6.5 was like the vp44 and could fail anytime without warning.maybe someone will fo the same for vp44,s

03-20-2009, 09:34 PM	#36
EBunger Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 250 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	We can only hope!