To power up or not?

[7707]

I've asked recently about the fuel plate and exhaust etc and now I am to the point of to do anything to get a bit more go or just leave it as is. 1995 12V, auto (recent rebuild), with 281K. The truck runs great other than a lopey idle and it's not that bad but it is noticeable. I plan to adjust my valves soon and I just ordered a new overflow valve from torktek. I also have the KDP kit sitting on my desk waiting to be installed. I put in gauges (egt, trans temp, and boost) last week. I will most likely leave the exhaust stock but remove the resonator/cat and muffler and see how I like it sound wise...if needs be I will put a muffler back in. I wanted to put in a 3K GSK and see how it felt and ordered one from TST but they called me and told me on a stock truck it would most likely make the truck run bad and that I needed a modified fuel plate to make it run right with the 3K springs. So now I am fighting myself to decide what to do. I like the truck as is but would like it to be able to rev up to 3K. I also wouldn't complain (ha ha) about a bit more giddy up but I in no way want to go crazy as I'd like to put another 281K on the truck without major problems.

[truthfriend7]

I'm no expert but I remember years ago when I shaved my fuel plate with a grinder. I left it flat with a small slope on the end. I don't know why people pay for them when it's so easy to do yourself. And man, what a power increase! Others will comment with safer advice, but that was years ago and the truck ran great. Now I just deleted the plate altogether.

[j-fox]

Do the 3k spring kit and a 10 plate or grind your stock one. ( do a search on grinding a plate)

You should also put in a transgo kit in the trans.

It will be a different and much better pulling and driving truck.
You should also do a turn buckle mod on the turbo for some more boost.

Don't run without the plate. It will smoke a lot and run too high EGT's.

TST is top notch and Mark Chapple worked for Cummins a long time. HE KNOWS THEM.

[gorms]

If you've got gauges just yank the plate! Heck I even tow without one, just learned to know the limits heading up a hill. With 7k behind me heading into northern New Hampshire (some grades to climb) I've never broke 1200 on the pyro keeping speed. If I put the pedal down and gain speed on those hills it can shoot up past 1400 after a few seconds if I choose. It also pulls very hard right past 3k rpm.

Either way, the 3k kit absolutely will make it drive better even if you just slid the stock plate forward a bit. Stock plate does defuel up top, but the stock governer does the same well before (22-2500).

Turnbuckle mod doesn't really apply to the 12V's, boost elbow (or pinched wastegate line) is fine.

Ditto on the shift kit though.

[7707]

I'm not sure what was actually put into the transmission when it was redone as I got it about 6 mos after the rebuild...but suffice it to say it is MUCH better than a stock new trans as I've driven them stock...even my '04 stock trans was not as nice as this. I know it's not a crazy built one but it should be fine for mild stuff.
I actually towed with it for the first time today...helped take a neighbors cow to butcher...so with 1K of animal and about 2200 lbs of trailer I know it wasn't much for a 1 ton...but it did very well even with the steer going berserk in the trailer.

I just don't know. I WANT to do it...but then again I don't. Whoknows...I'm just wishy washy!

[Tate]

Originally Posted by j-fox

It will be a different and much better pulling and driving truck.
You should also do a turn buckle mod on the turbo for some more boost.

Don't run without the plate. It will smoke a lot and run too high EGT's.

False! Running without a plate won't change the amount it smokes, thats the purpose of the AFC. WOT EGT's may increase, but thats due to more fuel. Just like a more aggressive plate.

[7707]

So what are the long term effects of no plate at all? My truck already has 281K on it. Even though I'm thinking of modding it I want it to last.

I have seen the pictures of home grinding your plate...not sure I want to trust myself with that or not.

[Tate]

If you're making 350 hp with a plate, the long term effects will be the same as 350 hp with no plate. Fuel is fuel, in that regard. It won't hurt the pump. You can hurt the engine just as easy with a plate as no plate.

[7707]

So how much power will it make with no plate and do you think it will run well with the 3K GSK and no plate?

I'm more concerned with useable RPM range but if I HAVE to (ha ha) do more to get it there I will.

[j-fox]

Originally Posted by Tate

False! Running without a plate won't change the amount it smokes, thats the purpose of the AFC. WOT EGT's may increase, but thats due to more fuel. Just like a more aggressive plate.

Answer this.
What does the AFC do after boost happens?
Answer , it moves out of the way so full fuel can happen, depending on the plate. Right or wrong?

If you can go over 1200-1300 egts by moving the throttle without a plate you are doing what the bosch engineers wanted to avoid, by using a plate.
Yes you can drive it without the plate. But what happens when your truck gets borrowed, friend, girlfriend or thief, and is run at full throttle for 3-5 miles? Melted pistons right?

[j-fox]

Originally Posted by 7707

So how much power will it make with no plate and do you think it will run well with the 3K GSK and no plate?

I'm more concerned with useable RPM range but if I HAVE to (ha ha) do more to get it there I will.

RPM is determined by the govenor springs.
change them and you will be surprised how much better the truck drives.

[j-fox]

Originally Posted by Tate

If you're making 350 hp with a plate, the long term effects will be the same as 350 hp with no plate. Fuel is fuel, in that regard. It won't hurt the pump. You can hurt the engine just as easy with a plate as no plate.

Tate, you should know better!
The plate is there to keep a warantee and limit fuel.

With a stock plate, in the stock position, you could run the truck full throttle for 400,000 miles and not hurt it with over fueling.
Wrong plate or no plate and you will melt pistons doing the same thing.

[7707]

Originally Posted by j-fox

RPM is determined by the govenor springs.
change them and you will be surprised how much better the truck drives.

That's what I want to do but TST told me I could not without putting in an aftermarket plate.

[Tate]

Originally Posted by j-fox

Answer this.
What does the AFC do after boost happens?
Answer , it moves out of the way so full fuel can happen, depending on the plate. Right or wrong?

If you can go over 1200-1300 egts by moving the throttle without a plate you are doing what the bosch engineers wanted to avoid, by using a plate.
Yes you can drive it without the plate. But what happens when your truck gets borrowed, friend, girlfriend or thief, and is run at full throttle for 3-5 miles? Melted pistons right?

AFC moves linearly to boost. It really depends how it is set. If you go full forward, weak spring and no preload, then you may be correct that it gets out of the way right away and allows the plate to do its job. Stock, this is not the case. Tuned, this is not the case. Many guys will set the AFC so it STARTS to move at 40 psi. Fulmer comes to mind. Even without the plate, the AFC will still act as a rack stop. Usually it takes a full forward, modified for travel AFC for the actual rack stop to come into play. Then you can swap it out for a 2095 rack plug for another 2-3mm of rack travel.

You can hit 1200-1400 degrees with a plate too. Thats not the catch all. Different timing, injectors, delivery valves can all cause high EGT's, even with a stock plate.

Unless you are pulling a big trailer, you're never gonna be able to run WOT for 3-5 minutes. I can get my truck tached out in top gear in 15 seconds. After that, its on the governor and pulling back fuel. So thats a moot point.

Originally Posted by j-fox

Tate, you should know better!
The plate is there to keep a warantee and limit fuel.

With a stock plate, in the stock position, you could run the truck full throttle for 400,000 miles and not hurt it with over fueling.
Wrong plate or no plate and you will melt pistons doing the same thing.

Warranty on a 14+ year old truck? News to me.

Again, see above about your full throttle statement. Stock governor pulls back fuel at ~2200 RPM regardless of plate or injectors. It'll slowly accelerate to high idle, which is usually around 2900-3100 RPM. At that point it will only add fuel to maintain that speed and load. Go down a hill at full throttle. Its going to quit accelerating on its own. Once it reaches max speed, it will be only gravity pushing you down that hill. The rack will retract to the point of zero fuel delivery.


There are plenty of stock trucks that burn pistons. Plenty of trucks with no plate with clean pistons. When I head the head off two years ago, cylinders looked great as did the pistons. I guess plateless won't wreck everything.

[greasy]

Originally Posted by 7707

I've asked recently about the fuel plate and exhaust etc and now I am to the point of to do anything to get a bit more go or just leave it as is.

1995 12V, auto (recent rebuild), with 281K. The truck runs great other than a lopey idle and it's not that bad but it is noticeable. I plan to adjust my valves soon and I just ordered a new overflow valve from torktek. I also have the KDP kit sitting on my desk waiting to be installed. I put in gauges (egt, trans temp, and boost) last week. I will most likely leave the exhaust stock but remove the resonator/cat and muffler and see how I like it sound wise...if needs be I will put a muffler back in.

I wanted to put in a 3K GSK and see how it felt and ordered one from TST but they called me and told me on a stock truck it would most likely make the truck run bad and that I needed a modified fuel plate to make it run right with the 3K springs.

So now I am fighting myself to decide what to do. I like the truck as is but would like it to be able to rev up to 3K. I also wouldn't complain (ha ha) about a bit more giddy up but I in no way want to go crazy as I'd like to put another 281K on the truck without major problems.

sounds like your in about the same boat as me, see sig.

I highly reccomend you go to that popular internet auction site and get a plate for about 20 bucks like I did, then stick in that 3k gov spring. I have my #10 plate set most of the way back and the AFC tuned pretty good. With the tow haul button engaged and a loaded heavy uphill pull I can get hotter on the pyro that one would like but empty it is tough to get into the red on the pyro. I don't have to worry about the wife or others driving it and I don't have to sit there and babysit the pyro either and I can watch the highway and traffic.

I also have DDP stage 1 +50 hp injectors and I'm happy with them too.

The truck isn't a hot rod by any means but it sure runs nice, stock was a turd as you know

IMO this is the way it should have run from the factory.