TLtravel

Each year I travel to Alaska. Last year had some dead petal issues on the return trip. Talked to Superchips and they recommended a lift pump. Had one put on next to the tank. Drove a few hundred miles over the winter with no problems. Started the trip North this year and after a 1000 miles or so got my first dead petal. Next day happened a couple of times. A few more times the following day, mostly late afternoon. In between I pulled some 10% grades pulling the fifth wheel with no problems. Last day of the trip I drove about 500 miles and it happened a couple of times. I'm now in Alaska with the trailer unhooked. No problems. Took it to the dealer and they checked the flow volume from the lift pump and said it was OK. When I checked the codes, reprogrammed to stock, before taking it in I had a 216. Now running around empty in stock, I am not getting any codes. The dealership said they wanted to see a code before doing any work on the main injector pump. Any suggestion on my next step?

Truck is 2001 3500 - stock except for the superchips programming and now the lift pump, a fuel pressure light, and boost, transmission temp and pyro.

JDGnut

I'm sure someone will post a link.. but there's two recalibrations you can do for the Pedal Position Sensor... (I think one is a reset.) I had some issues with the dead pedal.. but after the recal, I haven't had a problem.. (It was acting up about once a week.. no problems in the past 3-4 months.) But I do have a spare under the back seat.. haha.. I'll see if I can find the tread...
Bryan

I found the Reset..
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...n&onlynewfaq=1

I copied this from one of JetPoilot's postings..
resetting it using this procedure copied from DTT's website:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RESETTING THE APPS SENSOR.
(ACCELERATOR PEDAL POSITION SENSOR)
2ND GENERATION 24 VALVE TRUCKS ONLY.

LIST OF TOOLS NEEDED

DIGITAL VOLT METER
# 20 TORQUE BIT SOCKET
# 1 PHILLIPS
# 10 MM SOCKET

Proper service and repair procedures are vital to ensure personal safety of those performing the repairs. Standard safety procedures and precautions should be followed at all times to eliminate the personal injury or improper service, which could damage the vehicle or compromise its safety.
Although this material has been prepared with the intent to provide reliable information, no liability is assumed in reliance of this material.

It has come to my attention that a lot of people think by disconnecting & re-connecting the batteries and stepping on the throttle it is going to reset the apps, no, that is not correct. It is impossible to adjust your apps if you do not know where it is supposed to be set at. That is why you need the voltmeter.

This is the procedure I use to re-set the apps.

With the key on, engine off you need to probe the apps wire to see where your voltage is currently set at.
The best location to probe the wire is on the PCM (power control module) which is located off the passenger side of the firewall.

· You want the C1 connector, this is the connector closest to the engine,
· You want the orange wire with the dark blue tracer which is pin # 23
· Voltage should read somewhere around 0.5 volts,
· At this point the voltage reading does not matter, it just has to be accurately written down for later reference.

*** TURN THE IGNITION OFF ON THE TRUCK ***




Resetting the APPS Sensor cont. page 2
(Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor)
2nd generation 24 valve trucks only.

· The apps sensor is located slightly above and a little to the left of the injection pump.

· Remove the black plastic cover that is located by your injection pump.

The two screws that are holding it are plastic, do not put any downward pressure on them or you will never get them off.

· Un do the 6 - 10 mm headed bolts that hold the bracketry in place.
(DO NOT REMOVE THE CABLES)

You will notice the apps is on the back of the bracketry that you just removed, it is held in place by 2 - 20 bit screws. These screws have a little bit of locktite on them so make sure you have a good socket and gently give a little tap with a hammer before attempting to loosen. Be very careful these screws strip very easily and you only get one shot at them.

· On the apps you will find a white tag that gives you the information on what the apps adjustment should be.

· After loosening the screws you can rotate the apps both clockwise and counter clockwise to get the adjustment you need.

· The reading you took at the beginning of the process on pin # 23 should match the white tag on your apps, if not adjust accordingly.
__________________
Performance Diesel Warehouse

TLtravel

Thanks for the reply.

Is this sensor you are discussing someplace that it is affected by heat? Seems like this problem only occurs after driving for quite a distance pulling a load. I haven't had it empty or for the first few hundred miles after starting up in the morning.

JDGnut

Yup.. its under the black cover above the injection pump.. Its big contrapion for a POT... Its basically $150-200+ Pot...

TLtravel

It sounds like this could be a possibility. I have those tools - however, it is cloudy and raining up here on the Kenai so I think I will wait a bit for the weather to improve then open up the hood and look this over to see if it is something I can get done.

Why did you end up with one of these under your back seat?

TL

JDGnut

I had already ordered one when I started searching about the dead pedal.. and I really didn't think it was going to fix it.. (also got a good deal on the APPS) Well... like said... no problems yet... Just have it in the truck... Just in case...
In the past when it acted up... I could just cycle the key switch, and it was back to normal.. the last time.. I cycled it and it didn't come back.. I left the key off for a few mins.. and it came back to normal... I was out of town on a trip... And I was going up hill in a construction zone.. I was not happy... I ordered the APPS when I was out of town.. I did the adjustment and reset when I got home.. then the new APPS came in.. No problems with the old one yet...
Bryan

TLtravel

Thanks Bryan --- Hopefully, I will get some good weather here and get a chance to go out and look this over. Perhaps, it will provide me with a solution. Since I don't see the problem except with a long tow, I have to decide whether to test all of this on the return trip. Depending on which of the two roads I take back, I can get to places where it might be a couple hundred mile tow for my truck and trailer if I lose it on the road.

TL

JohnTcraigJr

Don't want to hijack the thread, but I have the same issues being talked about here.

Intermittant Dead Pedal.

Changed out the APPS today with a used known good one. Did nothing to help. The trouble is still there with me. Started to do the recal of the APPS voltage but the used APPS complete with pedal assembly was handed to me for $150.00 so thought why not? At least I get a test with a 2nd APPS. So, I now have a "known good spare?"

Trucks starts good like normal. Runs good except when the DP happens. When it happens, let off throttle, put auto-tranny in neutral and stab pedal a couple of times. Problem fixed, go on for a while until it decides to go DP again.

I have noticed that IF the truck is driven aggressively, and if, the pedal is kept busy that the DP does not happen. DP only happens when the pedal is held at a steady state condition for several minutes.

Also, like this thread mentioned earlier, when the temps are lower than about 45-50 degrees, DP never occurs. I drove for 5 months this past winter without ever having DP occur. The hotter the weather, the worse it is. temps now 100*F, DP is a very frequent event.

This has been going on now for a couple of years and is bugging the hell out of me. I just cannot believe that the VP can be bad and continue to function "normally" most of the time for two years.

So, dear readers: is this still an issue with the APPS not being calibrated exactly as per the voltage on the APPS white tag? Or, as a second thread currently running suggests, is it a bad ECM? I have a 2nd stock ECM that is going to be swapped in this weekend. I just never thought the ECM might be the culprit, but will try that just to see.

a 3rd thought? Is low power consistent with worn injectors? My truck (98.5 24V) has 107k miles, used to be a tow rig before I bought it at 87k miles 3 years ago. The truck is stock with a Van Aken module on it. It's a 1-ton dually automatic w/4.11 gears and almost gutless.

4th thought. If someone convinces me that the VP has to be changed out, is it worth it to buy the HD version for the extra $700 bux?? Does this do anything that F1 injectors won't?

Lots of questions here, but it is all in the same vein as what is being discussed. I really need to get this thing fixed because the truck needs to start towing full time in July....

Thanks in advance for all of your good help.
John Craig,
Mesa, AZ

JohnTcraigJr

Failed to mention that fuel pressure is 10-12 psi all the time. Had a new lift pump on hand, installed that with a new fuel filter just to exclude that as an issue. It wasn't obviously.

TLtravel

John - Do you get the 216 code?

I still haven't checked my APPS sensor voltage yet. Been fishing. But I will get to it soon and post what I find for voltage. The temperature part is what bothers me. It is still only getting up to around 60 in the day time here in Alaska and I'm concerned I will not see the problem again until I get the engine compartment real warm on a long tow (like hours of towing on the trip back to the lower 48). Hopefully, like Bryan, I will find the voltage setting off and that will make a difference. Like you I find it difficult to believe the VP44 is the problem when it works fine for long periods of time, including some very long pulls up 10% grades with the whole drive train getting a good workout and absolutely no problem.

TL

JohnTcraigJr

Yes, it is now displaying 3 codes: 0122, 0216, 1693 and they refuse to clear out for some reason. Always before they cleared okay. But that was before I changed out the APPS module assembly.

Funny thing this. Found the Orange wire w/Blue tracer and monitored the voltage on it. Measured 0.423 volts and the white tag had 0.485 volts stamped on it. Reset the sensor to give 0.485 volts and whamo! no more Dead Pedal Syndrome for now anyway. Has only been 24 hours, but that is 24 hours more than before the recal of the APPS.

But, now I am faced with a new discovery. I read on TDR that Brett Williams of Industrial Injection Service wrote "if your IP is loosing prime, then that is an indicator of an IP that is at the end of its' service life. This is because the internal tolerances are geting too loose to hold the required pressures".

So, recognizing that I have 5 out of 5 symptoms with my IP, I ordered up a new one from mwfi.com and I also ordered up a Low Fuel Presure Sensor assembly for $82 bux. It lets you know immediately if the lift pump fails.

Here is a copy/paste from a note I wrote to another forum with my symptoms. Maybe it will help someone else here.

This is a 1998.5 Cummins ISB 24v Dodge truck, 1T dually, 4x4, 4.11 gears, auto tranny, Factory exhaust & intake systems & turbo with the OEM Bosch VP44 injection pump.


Here is what I have gleaned from more reading. These are things that indicate
a VP44 IP is failing, or so I have been told...

* IP (injection pump) looses prime. This has happened 3 or 4 times
in the last 2 or 3 months

* loss of engine power. mine is down a lot compared to other trucks my
son drives every week at his job site.

* very slow turbo spool up. mine takes several seconds (6-8 at least) to increase
engine rpm from idle to 2600 rpm with full throttle applied.

* fuel economy falling off. PJ only got about 14 mpg on a 400 mile trip w/cruise
on all the way at 2050 rpm. Best mpg is 1700-2000 rpm.

* dead pedal syndrome where you loose control of the engine, it goes into
limp mode holding whatever rpm you were at and ignores throttle inputs.
mine is doing this all the time now. This is temperature related and when
temps are below 60-70 degrees it won't do it. PJ told me that when he
drove back to San Diego on Wednesday night (he left here at 10 p.m.) that
the truck never once exhibited Dead Pedal Syndrome.

* Transmission hunts between gears at part throttle on slow take offs.
Mine does this. Is related to lack of engine torque in relationship to the throttle
position. Driving very aggressively does away with this problem, uses lots of fuel though.

TLtravel

John - Thanks for the reply - Sorry to hear you ended up doing the IP. I hope I don't have that problem. I will soon know.

I checked my APPS voltage and found it to be 0.35 and the white tag said it was supposed to be 0.487. I admire your skill at adjusting. I must have tried about twenty times and I finally got it to 0.485 where I declared close enough. I figured if that adjustment was the problem and I am only seeing it at .35 after several hundred miles, I should now be close enough. I have to wonder how much it changes when it gets hot and in which direction. I did not have all of the other symptoms you were experiencing so hopefully this adjustment will fix my problem.

I will be watching for awhile to see if I get any codes. However, I will not be making the return trip to the lower 48 for another few weeks. I expect that will be the real test. Hope I don't end up broken down in the backwoods some where far from assistance. Should make for an interesting trip.

TL

Haulin_in_Dixie

If it is the vp you will end up with idle only, been there. Idled 15 miles with a full load. Check your codes with an obdII. It should tell you.

JohnTcraigJr

I have been putting up with this thing for almost two years now. It just keeps getting a little bit worse with time and miles. When it goes DP it just stays at whatever speed I was running when it occurs.

I've been in denial for so long it hurts

I just don't have the bux to be doing this job right now, but I suppose that is what banks made credit cards for

Since I'm a cheap skate, I chose ground shipping for it as the VP is now at least running okay since I did the recal on the APPS. Just no power at all now. Pulling a trailer is out of the question. All it is good for is running empty, but at least it is doing that until the new VP arrives.

I also ordered up a set of Bosch 300 hp injectors for it. The OEM injectors have got to be pretty much worn by now and not spraying like they should. That'll give me a spare set to have built up and then throw under the seat.

I'll keep this thread bookmarked and report back when the new VP is installed.

TLtravel

As a follow-up, when I started my truck I had a check engine light. I put on the superchip and checked the codes. I had a 122 for low APPS voltage and a 216. That surprised me since I had not run the engine. I guess that shows the APPS by itself can provide the necessary errors to get that 216 code out. I cleared the codes, started the truck and went for a long drive. No codes were generated everything ran fine.

The proof will be when I finally tow a load for several hours, since that is what it took before to get a 216 code and dead petal. When I did get it in the past, pushing on the accelerator, which is the normal reaction, didn't do anything and since I was usually on at least some type of grade, I started slowing down. I eventually figured out that I needed to let up on the gas, get what I've heard referred to as an "idle reset," and away I would go. Hopefully, that is a thing of the past. If not, in a few weeks after my return home, I will update this and let everyone hear the sad news. I hope I can get on here and tell everyone that the 3000 miles went fine with no problems.

TL