vander

I currently love the truck in my sig that I tow with, but I'm very very close to my overall GCWR and I'm considering moving up to a 1.5 or 2 ton truck to give me a safer legal buffer. Right now when loaded up with my racecar, ATV, tools and spares, I have it at max (according to two different Pilot CAT scales). And while the truck performs awesome even at that max GCWR of 24k, it doesn't give me any room to take anything extra in my trailer and it bothers me to be right at the limit like that. Another alternative I'm considering is to go with a 2010 3500 with the slightly higher GCWR (I think it will be 25,400). I'd love to stick with another Cummins either way, but I honestly don't know much about the 4500/5500 CC Dodges and had a few questions. The Ford F-450's are plentiful, but I don't like their motor, their trans is only a 5-speed, and they are too pricey in my opinion. So for the 4500/5500 CC's:

* I have had zero DPF problems with my 2007.5 6.7L, because 90% of the mileage we put on it is towing a heavy trailer, which keeps the exhaust and DPF good and hot. Any other truck I would get (either a 2010 3500, or a new or slightly used 4500/5500) would have the same treatment. Question - when did they go with the Urea solution on the 4500/5500 CC's? Is that just for 2010 or 2011? Or have all the recent ones had that? I looked, but found lots of conflicting answers. I would prefer to avoid any urea systems, because I feel I don't need it - my truck won't sit idling, won't make short trips, etc.

* I am not thrilled to be honest with the prospect of losing some peak hp and torque with a CC truck (305/610 vs 350/650) - how noticable is it? Is it easy to add it back via a programmer, etc (other than the potential loss of warranty)? I like the 350/650 power/tq of the 3500 to be honest.

* How is the Aisin 6-speed auto trans? I love the 68RFE trans, it has given me zero troubles so far, and it is amazingly smooth, and just a great trans. I know the Aisin has a tremendous reputation for durability and toughness - but how is it otherwise for performance and livability? Nobody I know has one, so I have no info.

* Does the exhaust brake in the CC's kick a** like the it does in the lighter trucks? I suspect it should be just the same, likely uses the same turbo system and software, but wanted to make sure. Towing that heavy trailer has made me really appreciate that exhaust brake, that thing is simply awesome.

* For a bed, what good options/sources exist out there? I need a 4x4 truck, but the problem is that they sit up too high in my opinion, and that forces me to raise the gooseneck pin up too much to make sure I clear the sides of the bed. I was hoping if I got a CC I could get a bed that had lower sides than a normal pickup bed and that would allow me to lower the trailer nose back down to where it was more level for better tire wear and safer towing in general. I've never looked for CC beds and honestly don't know good places to look, I'm sure there are some good aftermarket suppliers.

* One of the things I LOVE about the 2007.5 3500 I have is how amazingly quiet it is in the cabin while on long tows, even when at 2800-3000 rpms full throttle up a long hill. I know a lot of folks work hard to make their trucks noisier, but not me. My race car is loud inside, and after a day racing, I like a nice quiet tow vehicle for the drive back home to unwind. Sounds wimpy I know, but to each his own. So my question - how are the newer 4500/5500 CC's in that regard? Do they have as much noise insulation as the lighter trucks do?

* Are there any other significant differences between the 3500's and the 4500/5500's other than the trans, slight detune, more capacity and bed options?

Other then being right at max GCWR, I love my 3500, and part of me wants to just keep running as is, but another part of me (the logical, engineering part of me) says to get bigger truck and not push the limit.

Sorry for all of the questions, but I knew this forum/subforum would be the best place to get straight answers!!

Thanks everyone! And sorry for the long post.....

Vern

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2007.5 3500 6.7 QC LB 4x4 68RFE DRW

vander

I'm continuing to do some research (hard to find genuine legit info buried among other web static), but I keep reading that the GCWR of the 4500/5500 CC is only 26k for the 2007ish and newer trucks? Is that accurate? That is an amazingly low number. If that is accurate, that may end my investigation into getting a 4500/5500 CC. I know they will actually handle way more than that, but how can you legally register it for higher (say 28, 30, or 32k) without proof from the manufacturer. Is Dodge just trying to keep it under the magial 26k limit for some reason? I'm pretty sure that really isn't a barrier for non-commericial personal use if you have a non-CDL class-A. With the added weight of the truck itself, that really doesn't buy any added legal capacity. When I registered my current truck in PA for class 8 I had to show proof from Dodge that it can handle 24k. Frustrating if that 26k number is true, because the F450 is rated at 33k, but I hate their powertrain and price. Hopefully that 26k number isn't accurate!

Colo_River_Ram

vander,

I'll touch base on a few of your questions.

26,000 GCVW is max for not needing a cdl in a non-commercial application. the truck will handle much more than that..and can be licensed commercially for more..

I am very pleased with the Asian 6 sp. you can even add a PTO hyd pump to it if you desire.

The frames on the 4500 / 5500 are very impressive

The differentials are much larger than the one tons

The only difference between the 4500 and 5500 is the springs and gvw associated with them

The disc brakes are the largest in the class 4-5 trucks

Here is a link to the Dodge up fitter guide:

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/year.pdf

Hope this helps

__________________
08-Sterling Bullet 5500 4x4 6.7 Cummins,188.5,Quad Cab,White,Custom Built Flat-Bed,6sp Aisan,4.88's ,P-3,PTO/Snow Plow Prep.

05-3500 4X4.5.9, Jake Brake, Imp. Blue.Big Horn, Long Box Quad Cab, G56 SRW.3.73 LS.Custom Built Bed Rack/Weatherguard Tool Chest.Line-X OTRBL B&W T.O.B.,P-3 W/Valley "V30137" In Bed Harness.

01-Cat/EP 4x4 Forklift, 4.2L Perkins

32' 16.5K GN

42' 24K GN-el/hyd disc brakes


There Is No Distinctly American Criminal Class - Except Congress.

Mark Twain

vander

Thanks, that is a very helpful site, appreciate it! Interesting that site says 24,500 GCWR for the 2010 3500 (non-CC), while Dodge.com says 25,400. One of them is obviously incorrect!! That could cause Dodge headaches, because if someone was ever in an accident, and they had a truck registered for 25k and were at 25k because Dodge said 25.4k GCWR, but Dodge actually intended to publish 24.5k, they would be in a mess. Not a crazy scenario, because I'm right at 24k now, and it would be very easy for me to creep up near 25k with some extra junk in the trailer.

I think for above 26k I need to upgrade to a Class-A non-CDL license, which involves a written test and a brief road test in a "similar vehicle" without a trailer (meaning a quick road test in a truck above 3/4 ton without the trailer). That is what I've gathered both from other PA folks who have done that and also from directly asking PennDOT. From what I've found, there are no other restrictions, as long as you are truly not commercial (the truck and trailer are not registered in a business' name and you are not engaged in commerce). I have a few friends who tow pretty big stacker enclosed trailers (2-3 cars) with Renegades and baby Freightliners (35-50k GCWR) and they do not have to roll through weigh stations, don't need logbooks, etc. I'm sure that there could be some law enforcement out there on the road, in PA and other states, that could disagree and cause a hassle, but I think in the end those rules would apply.

Thanks again for the link, that is some very helpful info and specs in there!

RickG

The reason for the 26,000 lb. GVWR limit is these trucks were primarily designed to be used as dumps , flatbeds , wreckers , rollbacks , and service trucks with utility beds . If you look at the websites for them none of them are shown pulling trailers .

vander

That's GVWR, not GCWR. They list GVWR and GCWR separately, as they should. The GVWR's get pretty high, as you would expect with a medium-duty truck. But the GCWR's all stay at exactly 26k. That's pretty funny, because with the added weight of those trucks (especially the longer wheelbase ones), you end up only being able to tow a pretty light trailer, compared to a 3500. Engineering-wise, I'm sure a 45/5500 can safely handle a pretty heavy GCWR, and you could probably get a state DOT to register one for 30-35k GCWR, but if you ever had an accident, and you had no manufacturer's spec that showed it technically be that high, then you could be in trouble. That makes me very frustrated at Dodge, I'm not sure why they don't just go head-to-head with the F-450, which Ford is very proud to say has a GCWR of 34k. I'm not sure why Dodge is leaving 4 tons on the table......

vander

Sorry for the tone of my previous reply, didn't mean it to come across like that, sorta rude of me.

In the paddock at the races I attend, there is obviously an even split in the 2500-3500 truck range betweent he three brands, people pulling tag trailers and lighter goosenecks. And at the top of the range, but below a full-sized OTR tractor, you have the Renegades, baby Frieghtliners, some custom Kodiaks, and other heavy-duty trucks designed to pull 40k-60k GCWR combos and a 2-4 car stacker.

But in the 24k-35k range, for a large single or double car standard gooseneck (non-stacker), they only practical option is a Ford 450/550, which is very frustrating. That's all you see are the Ford 1.5 and 2 tons, and one of the reasons is because of that low published 26k GCWR of the Dodge. I don't truly hate Ford, but I'd prefer a Dodge Cummins if at all possible. I never see any Chevy 1.5-2 tons either, I'm not even sure what they offer. I think the new Ford Scorpion engine sounds like a killer, and that engine in an F450 (which does have a very nice interior and excellent options) with a good trans, will be a fantastic tow vehicle. But I don't like to buy brand-new engines right when they come out, so I would want to wait a year or so to see how the Ford 6.7 pans out. I got lucky with my CTD 6.7, it was the first year of it, but with towing the heavy trailer I keep the DPF hot, and the 6.7 from an engine standpoint is really just a 5.9, which was proven beyond any doubt. I may just get a new 2010 3500 and register it for 25.4k and move on. So that is why I am frustrated with Dodge for their wimpy stated GCWR - they need to step it up and compete with Ford.

RickG

You were right . That was a typo . It should have been GCWR . This is something that has been discussed many , many times nd the general opinion is manufacturer's ratings mean little if you register for a higher weight and don't exceed axle and tire ratings .

haulin-rv

I'm registered at 36k, but I do always keep that 9350 pound rear axle rating in mind. I am typically around 26k and 8400-8800 when I scale. The 26k gcwr is the one downfall of the 4500/5500, but at least they did not put the rating on the vin sticker like GM.

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2007 Dodge Mega Cab Dually SLT, 5.9 Cummins, G56 6 Speed Manual, Recon LED's, RAM Mount holding a Dell Latitude E6400, Verizon Mobile Internet, CB, 76 Gallon Aux Tank, 24k Husky 5th Wheel, Geno's Muffler Delete, Clutch Upgraded to Single Mass Flywheel, Amsoil, and the overpriced Infiniti sound system. 223,720 miles as 0f 1-24-10!