Old Smokey's Fuel Pin - Dodge Diesel

Bob Beauchaine · #1 08-30-2003, 03:56 PM

I installed Mike's - Old Smoky - fuel pin today with the following results:

Under lite to moderate acceleration there is less smoke and good throttle responce.

Under WOT this puppy really preforms and that's without the thinner nylon washer - which is on the way. The ramp on to I84 east from 182nd in Portland allows for a fairly long run up a 2 to 3% grade. I have used this before for testing. At 30 psi boost - gauge burried - and 1200 degrees EGT it moves. The truck ran quite nicely up to 70 mph in 4th and I know there is more there. ;D ;D

The only down side is that I will have to buy a new boost gauge. ;D ;D

Good work Mike - I can't wait to dyno at Piers.

Bob

wannadiesel · #2 08-30-2003, 09:07 PM

Bob-
Is he ready to sell them yet or is this another prototype? I want one!

Bob Beauchaine · #3 08-30-2003, 09:47 PM

This is the finished product. Email Mike or call Lenny at Dyno Mite Diesel Performance 1-866-774-DYNO. Just remind Lenny to include the nylon washer if you order one.

Bob

Alec · #4 08-31-2003, 12:55 AM

I would be interested to see if you got better performance at the top end with that pin if you advance the timing another degree -- you are stretching out the injection duration, so fuel is being injected later in the stroke now.

Just a thought.

I'm glad that they are available now!

hdm48 · #5 09-03-2003, 02:06 AM

Knowing what I know now, and if the pin was available at the time, I would have installed the pin before injectors. This pin makes the most noticable increase in performance of all the mods I have done. Not to mention the driveability improvements.
And to answer the timing question. I decided to play with it a little and found no increase when the timing is retarded. If anything, it likes a little advance. But I do have DD3+ injectors, and they like lots of advance.
I have taken a few long trips and can find no wear on the shaft or the taper.
Plus, my milage at 70mph went from 18.5 to 21.9.

Bob Beauchaine · #6 09-03-2003, 09:45 AM

As I was getting on the freeway (free -yeh right) I had a need to punch the old girl in 4th at about 45 mph - shot right up to 70 very quickly and not a lot of smoke. Made me smile.

Bob

thumbs · #7 09-03-2003, 06:01 PM

Where do you get this thing and how much is it?

Holsteinman · #8 09-03-2003, 08:03 PM

I am wondering what Old Smokey's fuel pin would do in an early first gen? Am also wondering what one would do to injection pump life?

Paul

country · #9 09-04-2003, 09:29 PM

with all due respect , and don't get me wrong i would love to try one of these pins , but 300 dollars for a pin , why so much , i understand horsepower is expensive , but geessh , its just a fuel pin , i know R&D cost money how much can this thing be costing to make ? don't get me wrong this is not intended to be a flame , i respect old smokey , just being a little curiuos.

p.s maybe he'll let me R&D one :

dodgeman01 · #10 09-04-2003, 11:06 PM

[quote author=country link=board=9;threadid=19017;start=0#msg180734 date=1062725358]
with all due respect , and don't get me wrong i would love to try one of these pins , but 300 dollars for a pin , why so much , i understand horsepower is expensive , but geessh , its just a fuel pin , i know R&D cost money how much can this thing be costing to make ? don't get me wrong this is not intended to be a flame , i respect old smokey , just being a little curiuos.

p.s maybe he'll let me R&D one :

[/quote]

Kinda thinking the same thing :

But it might be worth it but not for me right now anyway.
DM01

withers · #11 09-04-2003, 11:58 PM

I have never met Mike, but I'm sure he had to through alot of grief to make these things, If it was'nt for guys like Mike wasting their time in there shops or basements making products like this we would all be sitting at 160 flywheel hp. If I were to make a product that only a very few people would be interested in, I would want to make a profit too. HP usually costs money, I paid close to $600.00 canadian for injectors that gave me 50-60 hp, that's about $100.00 for every 10 hp, so $300.00 for about 40 hp does not sound to bad to me.
I'm not raggin on you guys, but think about it, he could have made one pin for himself, and that's it, we would all be out of luck :'( I can't think of anybody or any company making new performance parts for trucks that are over ten years old ???, those dd111 injectors sure were not around for long, why? not enough people were buying them, no demand no product, it's pretty simple.
Again guy's I'm not flammin you, Just giving my own opinion.

Bob Beauchaine · #12 09-05-2003, 10:24 AM

Withers - you took the words right out of my mouth. Most of you got your trucks for about 30% of the price for a new one. For about another 5% of the cost of a new truck you can post some darn good numbers.

Just about 1 year ago it was generally felt that 250 hp was the max for a first gen. Nascar Mark posted 308hp at Diesel Thunder that year - now Old Smoky has posted over 400 hp. You can get to 250 fairly cheaply but if you want more you will have to pay for it.

It's people like Old Smoky, Nascar Mark and Black Sheep racing at PDR that are doing all of the work. We are reaping the benefits.

Everybody liked the DD3+'s until they found out about the price but they do preform and to my mind were worth the cost.

Bob

country · #13 09-05-2003, 02:44 PM

i really didn't mean start anything , was just wondering why it cost so much? when i first heard about him working on a new pin , i thought to myself i can't wait till he gets it finished , would be a great mod , and thought at worst would be around the buck and a half area , so when i heard it was double that it kinda blew me away, and i'm sure its probably worth it , but would really like just like to know why its so much? i just don't understand , i'm uninformed

Lil Dog · #14 09-05-2003, 02:49 PM

I'm with country....

I also understand R&D etc, but I find it a bit much for just the pin.. For the market and the technology, I feel the $/hp a bit steep. IMO I would think that if only 3 were sold, it would pay for all the dyno time and the machining..

J-eh

Old Smoky · #15 09-05-2003, 09:43 PM

**THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT**

Hey guys. I have been staying out of this just to see what you guys have to say first. I am not taking offence to anything said here, and I understand everyone’s points. As for the price - I am not out to screw anyone, or sell something that I don’t think is worth the cost. When I first pulled out the stock AFC eccentric and started grinding on it with a dremel tool, I never thought I would be designing a new one and selling them to individuals and performance shops a year later. My idea was to let everyone else in on the fun, so they didn’t have to take the risk of modifying their own pin and possibly making a costly mistake. After going through a few bits and burning up one dremel tool (the material is really hard) I had something that worked. I don’t know how many times I would grind a little and then test drive, grind etc. I then got a used injection pump that I could take apart and make some measurements for increased accuracy. Many hours where spent making measurements and drawing up different plans. I then found a local machine shop that could help me with the making of a totally new pin. The plans had to be transferred to AutoCAD, and then modified to work with the programming. The first pin made was quite similar to the stock pin I modified, and worked quite well. But too much guide pin travel was available so the AFC housing filled with diesel. It also produced too much smoke. After some more R&D I found that the face of the pin was too long, and the diaphragm actually had to balloon out a little to reach full travel. This required a custom spacer to set the maximum vertical travel of the Power Pin. I made up a system using a regulated air supply and some special fittings, so that I could bench test the pins and not have to go zipping up and down the highway so much (but there is no substitute for real world testing). This is when I decided I wasn’t going to stop until it was perfect. I drew up a new set of plans for then 2nd pin and transferred them to AutoCAD, and the machine shop took it from there. After the machining and hardening was done the second pin proved to be far better than the first design. Now that I had the basic design down it was time to start the fine-tuning. The face was originally flat. However, this didn't allow for enough control of the air to fuel ratio. So, I started working on a version with a rounded face. The first one made looked like it would work, but the radius was to "fat" so the pin would go down with boost pressure, but would get hung up on the guide pin and not return - that was a bugger to get out. So it was basically more trial and error to get that part right - finding that I need less fuel in the low range, more in the mid range, which radiuses to use, and so on. There ended up being three different radiuses to achieve proper performance. Most everyone knows that machine shop time is not cheap, and the accurate hardening process is fairly difficult. Each time I would have a new pin made, or one modified, and sent out to be hardened, the cost of R&D really jumped. I think I ended up with six or seven different designs before I got it right, with several modifications along the way. The time and money involved added up to be far more than I had originally anticipated. I am kind of going out on a limb with this project. I may sell a bunch of these and come out ahead or possibly loose my investment all together. Dyno-Mite Diesel Performance was kind enough to help with some financial backing, and a percentage of each pin will go them. Thus, requiring more pieces to be sold in order for me to break even. When I came up with the cost of the Power Pin I had to take into consideration the cost of material, hardening, machine work, how many I will be able to sell, dyno time, and many other miscellaneous costs of research and development. This is how I decided on cost. If you think about it, the ratio of dollar to horsepower is not out of line. And there have been many people who have called the shop and said "Wow that’s a great deal" when told the price and results of the pin. Everyone I have sold a pin to has reported back with very positive results. I guess it may sound like a lot of money at first, but every person has said it was worth the money after trying it. I have not asked anyone to post their results on this, or any other forum. Those who have posted chose to do so by there own will. I do appreciate any feedback so that I can be sure that everything is working well. I guess it goes back to the old saying, "You have to pay to play."

Mike

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