New springs, new ball joints, new shocks...odd feeling - Page 6 - Dodge Diesel

RiverRat2 · 09-16-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob4x4

I have the Carli uppers and have been very happy...they take a lot of abuse and ask for More.I have driven Sage's truck with the lowers and it is truley amazing how smooth the steering is.He has been beating on the truck and taering it down for inspection after every thrashing and has seen no wear.He just got back from Baja after some more thrashing.That truck is a real work horse.

That sounds great,,,, Looking forward to seeing the results of the Carli lower B-joints Soon,,,, surely somebody has ponied up and bought and installed some??????

RiverRat2 · 09-16-2009, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyd Ram

Hey,
That's my website!

Anyhow, the Carli lowers should be out in November and the Dynatrac hopes to start shipping them in a few weeks.

What up????? your website looks like it will sell the Carli Lowers,,,,,,, and you say they are not availible till Nov???????????

?????

Skyd Ram · 09-17-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRat2

What up????? your website looks like it will sell the Carli Lowers,,,,,,, and you say they are not availible till Nov???????????

?????

Thanks for pointing that out. I made a change to it.

Sage Carli · 09-18-2009, 02:48 PM

Ok...........So I just had first hand experience with a truck with the exact same issue. The truck had our Extreme Duty Uppers and Moog lowers. One of our customers replaced the ball joints only and the truck started to wander all over. After reading this thread, I had to see for myself what was going on. I told him I would replace his lowers with McQuay Norris brand at no cost to him to see it it would cure the problem. When the truck was dropped off, I decided to take it down the freeway so I could feel how much the wander really was. Well, I almost hit a car hauler that was in the lane next to me. As soon as I made a correction the truck would shoot off in the other direction, SCARY!!!

So I disassembled the front end down to the axle. I grabbed one of the lower ball joints to see if it was tight. Well, it was. So much so that it felt "crunchy" inside. There was no smoothness at all as I cycled it through it's normal motion. It felt very notchy. And there is no weight on them at all at this point. I then continued on and finished the replacement of the lower joints.

Time for the test drive. Customers exact words were "It is completely different!" The steering was nice and smooth and the wander was gone. He was very happy. But I still had to know why the moogs would give such a symptom. So of course, I cut one apart. The design was actually pretty interesting. No bushing or insert of any kind. Which if done properly, is the only real way to have a "lifetime part." But, I saw two things that I didn't like. One was the fact that it looked like they take in old ball joints on warranty and reuse the pin. The pin had some pretty deep pits in it. The other thing was how the ball fit in the cup. The wear pattern is up to high on the ball of the pin. The top 1/4 of the ball never makes contact with the cup. So the weight of the truck is trying to force the ball down a tighter radius, which could create a pinching effect. I have attached pics so you call all see what it looks like on the inside.

RiverRat2 · 09-18-2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Carli

Ok...........So I just had first hand experience with a truck with the exact same issue. The truck had our Extreme Duty Uppers and Moog lowers. One of our customers replaced the ball joints only and the truck started to wander all over. After reading this thread, I had to see for myself what was going on. I told him I would replace his lowers with McQuay Norris brand at no cost to him to see it it would cure the problem. When the truck was dropped off, I decided to take it down the freeway so I could feel how much the wander really was. Well, I almost hit a car hauler that was in the lane next to me. As soon as I made a correction the truck would shoot off in the other direction, SCARY!!!

So I disassembled the front end down to the axle. I grabbed one of the lower ball joints to see if it was tight. Well, it was. So much so that it felt "crunchy" inside. There was no smoothness at all as I cycled it through it's normal motion. It felt very notchy. And there is no weight on them at all at this point. I then continued on and finished the replacement of the lower joints.

Time for the test drive. Customers exact words were "It is completely different!" The steering was nice and smooth and the wander was gone. He was very happy. But I still had to know why the moogs would give such a symptom. So of course, I cut one apart. The design was actually pretty interesting. No bushing or insert of any kind. Which if done properly, is the only real way to have a "lifetime part." But, I saw two things that I didn't like. One was the fact that it looked like they take in old ball joints on warranty and reuse the pin. The pin had some pretty deep pits in it. The other thing was how the ball fit in the cup. The wear pattern is up to high on the ball of the pin. The top 1/4 of the ball never makes contact with the cup. So the weight of the truck is trying to force the ball down a tighter radius, which could create a pinching effect. I have attached pics so you call all see what it looks like on the inside.

Great write up,,, and good pics,,,, That is pretty hard to imagine,,, used components in a supposedly new part???

Sage,,, do the McQuay Norris Lower BJ's have Grease Zerks?????? where can a fellow get some,,,

RiverRat2 · 09-19-2009, 10:07 AM

bump,,,

neversatisfied · 09-19-2009, 09:20 PM

I replaced my joints myself using a cheap press from harbor freight which did not have the correct adapters. I keep wondering if I possibly damaged the joints but after install they moved free. I plan on replacing the lower joints again but don't know which ones to use? I will cut mine apart when I replace them and take pictures to compare.
Steve

N.Johnson · 09-19-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neversatisfied

I I plan on replacing the lower joints again but don't know which ones to use?
Steve

What joints did you use on the first replacement, moogs?

Sage Carli · 09-21-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverRat2

Great write up,,, and good pics,,,, That is pretty hard to imagine,,, used components in a supposedly new part???

Sage,,, do the McQuay Norris Lower BJ's have Grease Zerks?????? where can a fellow get some,,,

Yes they do have grease zerks. But they make it a pain because you have to switch out a plug with a grease zerk every time you need to service them. I buy them at our local One Stop Parts Source.

I forget to mention in my post above that the moog's that I pulled out only had 1000 miles on them. No Bueno!

neversatisfied · 09-21-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.Johnson

What joints did you use on the first replacement, moogs?

Yes they were Moog's and I currently have aproximately 2500 miles on them. They show no sign of play with no load and the spindles rotate freely with the steering linkage removed. Last weekend I pumped them full of grease after I pulled the track bar to check the bushings and frame bolt holes for wear. The truck drove better for about 15-20 miles which leads me to believe there may be a problem with the moogs.

rogers259 · 09-22-2009, 11:17 AM

Sage...fantastic write up!!! This warning should be stickied at the top!!!

Get those new Carli lowers out QUICK!!!

steve05ram360 · 09-22-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage Carli

Ok...........So I just had first hand experience with a truck with the exact same issue. The truck had our Extreme Duty Uppers and Moog lowers. One of our customers replaced the ball joints only and the truck started to wander all over. After reading this thread, I had to see for myself what was going on. I told him I would replace his lowers with McQuay Norris brand at no cost to him to see it it would cure the problem. When the truck was dropped off, I decided to take it down the freeway so I could feel how much the wander really was. Well, I almost hit a car hauler that was in the lane next to me. As soon as I made a correction the truck would shoot off in the other direction, SCARY!!!

So I disassembled the front end down to the axle. I grabbed one of the lower ball joints to see if it was tight. Well, it was. So much so that it felt "crunchy" inside. There was no smoothness at all as I cycled it through it's normal motion. It felt very notchy. And there is no weight on them at all at this point. I then continued on and finished the replacement of the lower joints.

Time for the test drive. Customers exact words were "It is completely different!" The steering was nice and smooth and the wander was gone. He was very happy. But I still had to know why the moogs would give such a symptom. So of course, I cut one apart. The design was actually pretty interesting. No bushing or insert of any kind. Which if done properly, is the only real way to have a "lifetime part." But, I saw two things that I didn't like. One was the fact that it looked like they take in old ball joints on warranty and reuse the pin. The pin had some pretty deep pits in it. The other thing was how the ball fit in the cup. The wear pattern is up to high on the ball of the pin. The top 1/4 of the ball never makes contact with the cup. So the weight of the truck is trying to force the ball down a tighter radius, which could create a pinching effect. I have attached pics so you call all see what it looks like on the inside.

was this on both moog's or just one? I am wondering if this is just a mfg defect that your customer just happened to be un-lucky enough to get.

I have the same setup on my truck and have had zero problems with them from what I can tell. with the exception of some worn heims that are getting swapped out this week, the front end is pretty solid. (heims got abused from the worn CAB's & shot upper & lower ball joints).

I only wish your lowers were out back in April when I did the install

... I would've put those in as well. (love the uppers btw)

edit: at approx 15k miles since the install (****! has it been that many already??? ouch)

Hamilton713 · 09-29-2009, 03:55 PM

Well, I took my truck back in yesterday to have the Moog lower ball joints replaced with the OEM ones. My buddy at the shop called about an hour ago and told me it was fixed. He said no more sticky steering. I will be picking it up in a few hours and I'll post the results.

He did call me though when my truck was torn apart and said the ball joints appeared fine and there was no binding with the steering linkage removed. So it too was showing no signs of any problems with the weight of the truck off the front end.

I'm crossing my fingers all is good and this issue is done with.

Hamilton713 · 09-29-2009, 11:32 PM

Fixed, issue gone, period! Stay away from those Moog lower ball joints.

My truck drives like a dream again.

Good luck.

CTD8939 · 09-30-2009, 06:51 AM

Me too!! I just got mine back yesterday from the shop after they put the OEM's back in. I had Moog upper and lowers installed 15,000 miles ago and have fought with the truck since the day they were installed. With the Moogs out and the OEM's back in, the thing drives like new again. I am sure there will be others that will say they have the Moogs and have no problems. Botton line though, if you have the moogs and your having a tight steering issue or a wandering feeling in your steering, the moog ball joints are probably the culprit. It sucks that i spent $$ on a steering box, steering stabilizer, new tires, new tires again, 6 alignments, etc. etc. etc. But it sure is nice to have it fixed now.

Hopefully people with similar issues will read these posts and same themselves some time, money and grief.

09-18-2009, 02:48 PM	#79
Sage Carli Muted User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 7 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Ok...........So I just had first hand experience with a truck with the exact same issue. The truck had our Extreme Duty Uppers and Moog lowers. One of our customers replaced the ball joints only and the truck started to wander all over. After reading this thread, I had to see for myself what was going on. I told him I would replace his lowers with McQuay Norris brand at no cost to him to see it it would cure the problem. When the truck was dropped off, I decided to take it down the freeway so I could feel how much the wander really was. Well, I almost hit a car hauler that was in the lane next to me. As soon as I made a correction the truck would shoot off in the other direction, SCARY!!! So I disassembled the front end down to the axle. I grabbed one of the lower ball joints to see if it was tight. Well, it was. So much so that it felt "crunchy" inside. There was no smoothness at all as I cycled it through it's normal motion. It felt very notchy. And there is no weight on them at all at this point. I then continued on and finished the replacement of the lower joints. Time for the test drive. Customers exact words were "It is completely different!" The steering was nice and smooth and the wander was gone. He was very happy. But I still had to know why the moogs would give such a symptom. So of course, I cut one apart. The design was actually pretty interesting. No bushing or insert of any kind. Which if done properly, is the only real way to have a "lifetime part." But, I saw two things that I didn't like. One was the fact that it looked like they take in old ball joints on warranty and reuse the pin. The pin had some pretty deep pits in it. The other thing was how the ball fit in the cup. The wear pattern is up to high on the ball of the pin. The top 1/4 of the ball never makes contact with the cup. So the weight of the truck is trying to force the ball down a tighter radius, which could create a pinching effect. I have attached pics so you call all see what it looks like on the inside. Attached Thumbnails

09-19-2009, 09:20 PM	#82
neversatisfied Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lancaster, Ohio Posts: 59 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	I replaced my joints myself using a cheap press from harbor freight which did not have the correct adapters. I keep wondering if I possibly damaged the joints but after install they moved free. I plan on replacing the lower joints again but don't know which ones to use? I will cut mine apart when I replace them and take pictures to compare. Steve __________________ 2005 QC 2500 CTD 4X4, S.S.I. Steering Stabilizer, Leveling kit, AE 114's 18X9.5" MT ATZ's 325/60/18, AFE Stage II W/Proguard 7, MBRP replacement muffler, Quadzilla Xzillaraider Std., Isspro in dash (EGT, 60psi. boost, trans. temp.),Vent Tank Mod., Cobra 75 WX ST IAFF L-67 Proud to Serve

09-22-2009, 11:17 AM	#86
rogers259 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Canal Winchester, OH Posts: 448 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Sage...fantastic write up!!! This warning should be stickied at the top!!! Get those new Carli lowers out QUICK!!! __________________ Matt 04.5 3500 SLT, QC, LB, SRW Pacific Blue Pearl 3.73, 4x4, 48re Goerend Tranny A.R.E. Cap, Garmin 7200, Alpine 9883, ALI Leather Mods: ISSPRO gauges - trans, egt, boost, fuel HTT 62/65/13ss, ATS Exhaust Manifold, FASS 150, DDP 50 injectors, CFM+, AFE Stage2, Donaldson 41", Bilstein shocks, MAG-HYTEC - trans, front, rear 285/75/17 Nitto Dura Grappler, Smarty Revo

09-29-2009, 03:55 PM	#88
Hamilton713 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 81 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Well, I took my truck back in yesterday to have the Moog lower ball joints replaced with the OEM ones. My buddy at the shop called about an hour ago and told me it was fixed. He said no more sticky steering. I will be picking it up in a few hours and I'll post the results. He did call me though when my truck was torn apart and said the ball joints appeared fine and there was no binding with the steering linkage removed. So it too was showing no signs of any problems with the weight of the truck off the front end. I'm crossing my fingers all is good and this issue is done with. __________________ '05 3500 CTD, 6 speed G56, Quad-Cab, Long Bed, 4x4

09-30-2009, 06:51 AM	#90
CTD8939 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 40 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Moog NO GOOD Me too!! I just got mine back yesterday from the shop after they put the OEM's back in. I had Moog upper and lowers installed 15,000 miles ago and have fought with the truck since the day they were installed. With the Moogs out and the OEM's back in, the thing drives like new again. I am sure there will be others that will say they have the Moogs and have no problems. Botton line though, if you have the moogs and your having a tight steering issue or a wandering feeling in your steering, the moog ball joints are probably the culprit. It sucks that i spent $$ on a steering box, steering stabilizer, new tires, new tires again, 6 alignments, etc. etc. etc. But it sure is nice to have it fixed now. Hopefully people with similar issues will read these posts and same themselves some time, money and grief. __________________ 2005 - 2500 Quad SWB 4x4 Auto 3:73 Tow Pkg.

09-19-2009, 10:07 AM	#81
RiverRat2 Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 288 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	bump,,,

09-29-2009, 11:32 PM	#89
Hamilton713 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 81 My Photo Gallery My Classified Ads	Fixed, issue gone, period! Stay away from those Moog lower ball joints. My truck drives like a dream again. Good luck.

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